can it be true...a FIX????

[Drago77]

Hey guys-

I was intending on waiting until I had some definitive news to post anything, but I got a lot of PM's from interested members, so I'll try to answer everything I can here:

I didn't get the message b4 leaving the dealer, so I wasn't able to ask about a generalized extended warranty for all owners, specifically... however; what I was told is that, regardless of whether they had or hadn't issued me a written warranty addendum, becasue of the documentation my top will be covered beyond the normal warranty... I assume that goes for everyone else...

Like I said- I don't have any difinitive news yet... other than I'm now driving a Cruise... not a very "cool" car... lol.

Appearantly all the TSB's were NOT completed on my car as previously thought. The tape fix was applied, but only 2/3 of it... it seems the most important part was left off- that being the tape that covers the rail where the top fabric is coming in contact and pinching... they've got the tape, we examined the application/area, and whether it works or not is up in the air, but for the time being, there is some logic to it, and we'll give it a shot...the tape does cover the effected area as diagnosed by SUX2BU and I... if it allows the fabric to slide, rather than chafe on the textured rail surface... who knows???? as for my (SUX's) alternative fix... they were VERY interested in that, agree it "should" work to prevent the problem and are contacting GM Engineering to see what route to take with this... they explained a couple potential outcomes on this which I'll go into more detail once I hear back. Again, SUX- awesome find. I was supposed to hear back as soon as they heard from GM... perhaps no news is good news, at least it indicates it's not a flat-out "no."

As for any new brackets, rails, etc... they're checking into this to be 110% certain, but believe there is nothing changed on the production line other than possibly these TSB enhancements being done during production... If there IS anything different, they will be ordering the new parts, however the initial report is there's not.

As for the water management bag- I've never experienced an issue with that, and what I was told, is following another forum members advise, they contacted another dealership in the midwest who'd changed these parts out... once again, in speaking to the service manager their personally, he concluded nothing different was ordered for those top(s) other than what's been put out this past year. They claimed something about the temperatures and frozen water etc... again, I've never experineced this so Im taking their word blindly.

The hole developing behind my rear driver window appears to be a mystery at this time, and relatively isolated to me. As such, they're going to remove/replace the top and attempt to diagnose the cause of that.

I will get my written, extended warranty covering the top and mechanisms.

Once again, I can't say for certain either way whether this "tape" fix will work, obviously I have my doubts, but before we can jump to option "B", option "A" has to be attempted. While I hope this does work, I'm really anxious to see the "other" fix put in place. I sincerely believe that could solve these issues completely, and after listening to the techs speak, it seems viable, mechanically safe and effective...

I'm waiting on a call to hear what route they're taking, as far as total mechanical replacement or just the canvas again, as well as the "fix"... once I know more, I'll certainly post. It was made abundantly clear to me today that GM knows and accepts this as a problem, and is working to "fix" the problemthe discussioned went into the costs associated with R&D to acknowledge a problem and implement a fix, vs just buying back a few defective cars... plainly put, these rub issues are appearantly more a common occurance than a mark-free top is.



Thanks again for all the messages and support! I'll keep everyone informed... hopefully good things are coming!

[11BEE]

Thanks for this update and spearheading this for all of us.

[Nutbutt]

Little surprised at the Water management bag comments. I have seen the difference between the New water management bag and the one that came with my replacement top. It is visibly larger and slightly different shape in the corners.
After looking at the replacement top I just had installed all the differences that I can see are in the plastic brackets and tape/padding around the ribs. This top just fits so much better than the two replacement tops previously done. Maybe it was the additions of bandaid fixes in sequence over the past year that just ruined the original mechanics.
Well, good luck Drago, so far this total replacement has worked out fine and I received a letter today about my warranty extension I was promised by the GM rep.

[whidobie]

Thanks for the update and enjoy cruising in the cruise. NOT!

[Drago77]

Nutt- the water management system isn't my area of expertise, so i couldn't really say much. I forwarded your message to the service manager, he said he called and spoke to yours personally. I saw hand written notes on the printout of your PM I forwarded, so it seems legit at face value...

Once again I have great faith in Starling; they've done me right so far... if this don't work though, its over...

[pony]

Thanks for the warranty info. Finally got my car out of the body shop and was able to more closely inspect the top; Definitely have the pinch marks with some fraying noticed. Hopefully I can get this worked on and TSB's performed before a complete wear through occurs. Once I wash the top and "brush out" the pinches I'll know how bad it really is. If it's like a lot of others though, this will only be temporary and will eventually will rub through.

You would hope that once the top is replaced that GM would warranty the new one for at least another 3-5 years or make damn sure the new one has been re-egineered NOT to rub/pinch!

[Nutbutt]

I am cautiously optimistic on the top fix I have now (complete replacement ). It took about 2 months for the origin to start to show wear and another month to have holes start to form. I'm almost 6 weeks into this fix and there is no pinch marks to speak of. I am scheduled to return to the dealership for a final inspection at the end of the month. Hopefully I'll have nothing but a permagrin to report !

[Drago77]

Don't know what I really can/can't say on here... don't wanna pi$$ of the powers that hold my cars fate in their hands; but i gotta share something for all those in my situation...

(Believe me when I tell you these ARE monitored!)

I was offered 2 options today (neither involved getting rid of Drago)

1)- update all TSBs including the tape that wasn't completed, replace the top with another of the current designed canvas, and hope for the best... or...

2)- take my car back, as is... and wait for good things to come in 4-8 weeks.

I happily chose to reclaim my car this weekend and watch the "permagrin" start to form once again... knowing there's a light at the end of the tunnel. I'll be without the car again in a month or two for a week or so, but very well worth it.

You guys are smart enough, you get it

I'm the least patient person in the world... but I'm happily waiting.

[bulllett]

Originally Posted by Drago77

2)- take my car back, as is... and wait for good things to come in 4-8 weeks.


I'm the least patient person in the world... but I'm happily waiting.

I hear you and understand what you are saying; and I'm not trying to rain on anybody's parade BUT remember the past. Keep in mind what I said about their strategy of extending. You guys are smart enough to figure that out.

I've just seen us burned as a group.....

And I just realized how pissed off I am at GM's insult to my intelligence (when I went in and did my TSB and they answered as they did, "Normal" "wash off" etc.). I knew it was coming, I was aware of the problems others had, but apparently to hear it told directly to my face like I'm some kind of moron who would fall for that crap....dudes, try another strategy. You're not even "Baffling me with Bullshit". There's nothing baffling about a bald faced lie.

What, do you think this will make me go away? Do you think if Maria doesn't call me back, I'm just gonna disappear?


Meh, sorry about that last rant Drago. I hope you're right.

[Nutbutt]

Understood Drago Believe me I understand. I have another appointment with GM at my dealer coming up.

['11 cyber grey vert]

Originally Posted by bulllett

I hear you and understand what you are saying; and I'm not trying to rain on anybody's parade BUT remember the past. Keep in mind what I said about their strategy of extending. You guys are smart enough to figure that out.

I've just seen us burned as a group.....

And I just realized how pissed off I am at GM's insult to my intelligence (when I went in and did my TSB and they answered as they did, "Normal" "wash off" etc.). I knew it was coming, I was aware of the problems others had, but apparently to hear it told directly to my face like I'm some kind of moron who would fall for that crap....dudes, try another strategy. You're not even "Baffling me with Bullshit". There's nothing baffling about a bald faced lie.

What, do you think this will make me go away? Do you think if Maria doesn't call me back, I'm just gonna disappear?


Meh, sorry about that last rant Drago. I hope you're right.

I also think it is partially dependent on your dealer.
When I took mine in for the 5th bow, the service manager came out and inspected my car himself, I did not have to call him out or rant like a lunatic towards the other staff.HE pointed out and said they will also apply tsbs to help with some minor chafing (rub marks) on my top.
This particular service manager was very well versed on the roof issues and they have recently repaired one as well.He even said he went to a different dealers lot just to scope out the tops and noticed they had broken tops right on their lot.He is definitely doing his homework.

[Drago77]

Originally Posted by bulllett

I hear you and understand what you are saying; and I'm not trying to rain on anybody's parade BUT remember the past. Keep in mind what I said about their strategy of extending. You guys are smart enough to figure that out.

I've just seen us burned as a group.....

And I just realized how pissed off I am at GM's insult to my intelligence (when I went in and did my TSB and they answered as they did, "Normal" "wash off" etc.). I knew it was coming, I was aware of the problems others had, but apparently to hear it told directly to my face like I'm some kind of moron who would fall for that crap....dudes, try another strategy. You're not even "Baffling me with Bullshit". There's nothing baffling about a bald faced lie.

What, do you think this will make me go away? Do you think if Maria doesn't call me back, I'm just gonna disappear?


Meh, sorry about that last rant Drago. I hope you're right.

Oh believe me, I hear ya...

I'm on my third dealership, over 100 miles away because I refused to be lied to and rudely disrespected at the others...

A few things that make me optimistic on this:

I was given the option to have the top replaced with one they currently had at the dealership, this was the original plan when I left my car there. If there wasn't something else coming, why not just let me ride with it? Id have never known the difference.

And the most important difference; I have an agreement (in writing, in hand) between GM and the BBB that the car will be fixed to my satisfaction before the complaint is closed. The regional rep made several mentions Wednesday about the claim and getting it closed satisfactorily and quickly. By their own doing, they're extending the duration of the case. I'm covered regardless; I would think it behooves GM to close it sooner than later

I may very well be hanging on to blind faith, and its not an earth shattering fix they offered, but it should work and appease all my requests in my BBB complaint. I have an idea that I may be starting to understand the "bigger picture" in these fix releases, etc... I don't necessarily agree with it, but if I'm correct, persistence will get the job done right.

I feel comfortable waiting, but if it is b.s. I'm confident in SUX fix after speaking to the techs, ill fix it myself, take comfort in the extended warranty and enjoy the car while it lasts...

[95birdible]

Just an update. My new car arrived today. As I was sitting doing paperwork the Service Manager came in with all the TSB's that were just released. He told me he is going over the top and applying anything that needs to be done. Hopefully nothing. This was the same guy that originally blamed me for the rub marks from putting the top down wet. Looks like he changed his tune. At least they are trying to be proactive with the cars now instead of reactive

[spikess581]

I am glad for you Drago. It took too long but GM seems to have fiqured it out and one by one getting us fixed and happy!