'14 AGM 1SS/1LE Track build [COTW 11/17/14]

[1sick_eg]

Have you had a chance to drive or ride in your brothers car with the BC coilovers? I'd like to know how the handling compares to the 1le and the z28 suspension.

[pgviper]

I really enjoy watching builds like these. However, I planned one out myself and in the end, to me it makes more sense to just get a z/28.

With all of the money and time you invested into building up your 1le, how come you didn't just go with a z/28? It will hold its value better and comes with a warranty.

[X25]

Originally Posted by pgviper

I really enjoy watching builds like these. However, I planned one out myself and in the end, to me it makes more sense to just get a z/28.

With all of the money and time you invested into building up your 1le, how come you didn't just go with a z/28? It will hold its value better and comes with a warranty.

Even if you get Z/28 you still need engine cooling mods, a separate set of wheels, brake ducting to protect the precious rotors, etc. The major difference is the Z/28 suspension kit I'd not need, but that's just $3.4K. Please also note my cost is offset by a big margin by the sale of 1LE wheels set, which are more valuable than Z/28 wheels; I got $2954 shipped out of them.

In short, this build is actually pretty cheap in my opinion .

[X25]

Getting the alignment done. I think it looks very sharp

[X25]

Originally Posted by 1sick_eg

Have you had a chance to drive or ride in your brothers car with the BC coilovers? I'd like to know how the handling compares to the 1le and the z28 suspension.

He is yet to install it, and he needs a seat before getting to try it, since he has a sunroof, and does not fit well with the helmet on.

The real problem is the season. In short, it's over for us here in Pacific Northwest. I am trying very hard to get a track day scheduled this weekend; I hope it works out.

Some asked why I would not just compare the suspension at the street. I honestly can't measure differences enough at the street, besides perhaps comfort and clearance. I never push the car too much at the streets due to safety concerns. I'm sure some are better than me on that.

Nevertheless, we expect the BC coilovers to perform very close to Z/28 counterparts, if not better at the track. The key here will be tuning them properly. I am hoping we will have plenty of time tuning it at ORP since it's open track format, and is never crowded since it's open to club members only.

[X25]

Alignment: The fronts were able to get to all the camber I might want, but the rears only gave me about -1 degrees at one side :( Due to the limitation by the rear, I got the fronts set at -1.8 degrees to keep it balanced to some extend. Next year, I might change the control arm by the rear and push it to -1.5, -1.6 in the rear, with fronts around -2 to -2.5.

The ride (of Z/28 suspension): It is very comfortable! Just like the case with higher end coilovers, I was expecting a comfortable ride, but it is beyond my expectations considering the handling prowess. They suck up little bumps very well, and I have no rattle, no squeak, nothing whatsoever! Actually, I think it is more comfortable than my 1LE suspension with the BMR sways (and bushings) and 20" stock wheels. This might have something to do with the Hankook RS-3s as well since Trofeo Rs might have a stiffer sidewall, but I have to say that I enjoyed the ride very much! Please note I am not a man of luxury car ride, so don't expect Mercedes S series comfort from my statements

I am so far very happy with the set-up. I can definitely see myself driving it every day, even though I have a separate, more comfortable commute car. I am looking forward to testing it out at the track.

[Nick S]

Did the Z/28 suspension alone lower the car any? Just wondering if the Z/28 struts/springs lower the car at all compared to the 1LE struts/springs. Very cool of you to document all this for us to learn from! Thank you!

[X25]

Originally Posted by Nick S

Did the Z/28 suspension alone lower the car any? Just wondering if the Z/28 struts/springs lower the car at all compared to the 1LE struts/springs. Very cool of you to document all this for us to learn from! Thank you!

I haven't measured yet, but the gap looks similar. If there's any drop, it should be minor. Even though I did not take exact measurements before the switch, I can take pics from the same location and powt before/after pics.

My pleasure btw, I enjoy the projects like this very much!

[X25]

More driving impressions:
I got my brother to test drive the car today, and he is very impressed with the car's improved handling! Very well balanced, and very easy to drive. He said he doesn't think he can catch me anymore with his 1LE; we'll see. I sure hope I can get to drive it at the track this weekend!

Gauges:
Test fitted the gauges tonight. Looks like it will be pretty easy: main +12V from ignition switch with a tap-a-fuse, +12V dim from car's light switch's pin 7 (dash light), ground from who knows where, and finally 3 lines of cord from somewhere on the firewall (if not, will have to drill).

The gauge pod's color matches the center console very well. The whole bezel around the gauges is actually the gauge pod.

[X25]

Today, I drove to work in Seattle downtown, passed through a billion road cracks, and then drove 250 miles to Oregon for tomorrow's track day. Perhaps I was a bit too early on thinking Z/28s are very comfortable. They were more nervous in Seattle downtown with its under-maintained roads.

On my way to Oregon, they were not bad at all, but there was a part of road where it was very wavy, and I was definitely 'riding the wave' Good, that means I kept my contact with the road patch; what it needs to do.

I have monitored the oil temps during the whole trip. A few remarks:

• The oil temp took way longer than what the dash display suggested to warm up. It stayed around 70 degrees for the first few minutes, whereas the dash already got 120+. When it finally got to 100 degrees 10 minutes into my commute, the dash was displaying 190+. I think it took about 15 minutes of minimal RPMs at commute to warm up (most of it @65 MPH @6th gear). It was cold out at around 50 degrees. I think the oil cooler is still cooling quote a bit even when thermostat is shut.
• On my way to Oregon, the oil temp stabilized at around 175 degrees. It climbed up to 190s climbing mountains, and got to as low as 140s when traveling at 55MPH @40 degrees ambient. Please note all these temps are below the thermostat's 215 degree setting. Another forum member was suggesting that the oil flows at about 10% rate when the thermostat is shut. It made me think perhaps the flow is more than enough to prevent oil from being to 200s. I suppose my oil cooler is a little too big
• During the trip, even though my gauge constantly moved around as I went up and down the passes and hills, the factory display was usually rock solid at 210.

[X25]

Just uploaded the video from the today's track day.

A few remarks regarding this trip and the car setup:

• Improved my time by about 1 second to 1:57.25. That said, I was not impressed by Hankook RS3s. They were not awful at anything, but they did not feel great, either. I think my car could use a lot more tire today.
• I could not improve my braking as I thought I would. I just could not stay in my seat. I need to install the harness.
• The camber marks on the tires were still not hit. Perhaps I should have decreased my tire pressures even further. Oh well, I'll try next time (if there's a next time this season).
• The StopTech brakes worked like a champ. No issues, consistent pedal feel, even after my 1-hour-long torture sessions. Wheels were completely covered with dust, though.
• The new brake ducting layout worked perfect! It never ever rubbed, and did not get malformed by any means. I am very happy with the results, and will introduce this layout (that I learned from other members) to the how-to post I wrote.
• Oil temps still hit 290 degrees! It did not get to more than that, but it is pretty disappointing. You can see the oil temp gauge from the video when the shifter is at 2nd or 4th gears.
• The OEM oil temp gauge was off by a big margin most of the time EXCEPT in the range of 250-275 degrees F. At this range, it was perfectly following my aftermarket gauge; this cannot be a coincidence. So there you have it, you can trust your gauge when it shows around this range :P To read above 266, you will need to read it from OBD II (using a Bluetooth ELM327 OBDII reader looks to be the best solution).
• On my way back with the speed controlled by cruise control at 6th gear 99% of the time, the oil temp hovered in 150-175 degrees range. Considering thermostat is supposed to keep it at 215 degrees F, this is also disappointing :P Can 10% flow allowed by the thermostat (when it's supposedly off) really cool it down that much? Since my engine oil will see 280-290 degrees F every once in a while, it's not a big deal, but it's still unexpected.

Brake ducting layout:


How the car looks with Z/28 suspension + APEX wheels + StopTech BBK + Hankook RS3s

[AG1LE]

Great update - look forward to learning more about your brake ducts. I will need something custom that works around the CAI air scoop (The Z28 ducts wouldn't work for me).

[L99CAMA2011]

Originally Posted by X25

Just uploaded the video from the today's track day.

A few remarks regarding this trip and the car setup:

• Improved my time by about 1 second to 1:57.25. That said, I was not impressed by Hankook RS3s. They were not awful at anything, but they did not feel great, either. I think my car could use a lot more tire today.
• I could not improve my braking as I thought I would. I just could not stay in my seat. I need to install the harness.
• The camber marks on the tires were still not hit. Perhaps I should have decreased my tire pressures even further. Oh well, I'll try next time (if there's a next time this season).
• The StopTech brakes worked like a champ. No issues, consistent pedal feel, even after my 1-hour-long torture sessions. Wheels were completely covered with dust, though.
• The new brake ducting layout worked perfect! It never ever rubbed, and did not get malformed by any means. I am very happy with the results, and will introduce this layout (that I learned from other members) to the how-to post I wrote.
• Oil temps still hit 290 degrees! It did not get to more than that, but it is pretty disappointing. You can see the oil temp gauge from the video when the shifter is at 2nd or 4th gears.
• The OEM oil temp gauge was off by a big margin most of the time EXCEPT in the range of 250-275 degrees F. At this range, it was perfectly following my aftermarket gauge; this cannot be a coincidence. So there you have it, you can trust your gauge when it shows around this range :P To read above 266, you will need to read it from OBD II (using a Bluetooth ELM327 OBDII reader looks to be the best solution).
• On my way back with the speed controlled by cruise control at 6th gear 99% of the time, the oil temp hovered in 150-175 degrees range. Considering thermostat is supposed to keep it at 215 degrees F, this is also disappointing :P Can 10% flow allowed by the thermostat (when it's supposedly off) really cool it down that much? Since my engine oil will see 280-290 degrees F every once in a while, it's not a big deal, but it's still unexpected.

Brake ducting layout:


How the car looks with Z/28 suspension + APEX wheels + StopTech BBK + Hankook RS3s

No offense but I don't like the rake of this setup on the non Z28. The Z28 looks flush, flat to the ground. Did you have your rear swaybar timed as well as control arm bushings? Rake also effects handling more than many may think. Also I knew you wouldn't like the Hankooks RS3 on this car, I didn't either and will never buy them again. I bet you would've gotten better times with different tires. I would stick to Nitto, Hoosier, Toyo, Michelin or Pirelli, even Continental if they have a fitment. I grew not to like the construction of the Hankooks or the Yokohamas. These 2 tires are more for lighter cars meant for autocross and they both missed the boat on the structure of a true performance tire, something that Pirelli and Michelin provides very well. Looks like your car responds quicker to steering input with the Z28 suspension. This suspension looks like a clear winner and good enough to get over coilovers. Also did you have your car tuned yet?

[X25]

No worries, I don't mind

I got my car tuned (mail order) by Matt @ FSP, but did not get a chance to have it dynoed yet. He is very slow to respond to e mails and forgets them as well. I think he should switch to Inbox by Google with its organizers and reminders. Or he just didn't like my name

I torqued the rear sway bar mounts at the alignment shop, so it is not clocked for sure. The OEM control arms have metal shafts guiding the bolts; how can they bind and get clocked? I'll still check it out. Z/28 cars come with fender extenders, so it's hard to know how they look without them.

In Miata world, rake is generally accepted to improve handling by improving the turn in and braking. The recommended amount is 0.25". Of course, that's a 2500 lbs car with grocery-getter power. I am not sure what is optimal for Camaro, or if it is good for it, but I'd leave it stock.

Below are the heights I noted in my journal before I touched the stock 1LE shocks and wheels.
LF, RF, RR, LR
16 8/16, 16 15/16, 17 4/16, 17 2/16

These are measured from hub to fender, in inches with a bit of inaccuracy since it is hard to measure. There seems to be a bit of rake (which decreases a bit with driver and/or passengers onboard).

I'd try an r-compound, but don't want to just buy it and let it spend a cold winter in the garage. I'll have to wait until next season! I also want to buy the Proxes RR to my Miata and compare it with Hoosiers on my 1LE if I get to have enough budget. Well see.