Lowering a daily driver 1LE, advice please - Page 11 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Matty Ice · 11-30-2016, 11:41 AM

I have been going crazy of this lowering the 1le and not upsetting the factory handling. How would this set up work? BMR V8 -1.25(220lb) front spring with a rear V6 -1.2(430lb) spring? The V6 rear spring is roughly the same as the Pedders, DSE, PFADT spring rates. All of the spring manufactures have their own positives but when it comes to the 1le I can't have any of the negatives. I would love to go with the DSE springs but living in MKE with the roads here I just could not handle the -1.5 drop. My goal is to get rid of the horrendous wheel gap without any negative impact on handling, can't give that up. Thanks for the thoughts and opinions.

Norm Peterson · 11-30-2016, 12:18 PM

Sounds like something's got to give here.

If -1.5" is a guaranteed deal-breaker (for whatever reasons), I'm having a really hard time feeling much better about only a quarter inch less drop. Don't forget - the clearances gained by that quarter inch less drop go away when a good-size adult (say, 200 lbs) gets in as a passenger.

Ignoring ride height at least for the moment, any other set of springs is likely to have a different front to rear balance than OE, meaning at least that to recover where the car's load transfer balance is now - you may have to look into getting different (and preferably adjustable) front and rear sta-bars. If you're attuned to what either heavier or lighter understeer feels like, separate from things like front grip, the tuning process won't be lengthy or difficult.

Is there any chance that you could be happy enough with an even less aggressive lowering, more like 15 or 20 mm? Why not just let those who don't know what the 1LE is all about wonder why it doesn't fit the stereotyped image that says cars with modified suspensions have to look obviously different?

Norm

MBaseman · 11-30-2016, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DC5

MBaseman:

Did the Hotchkis coil springs offer a perceivable improvement in the handling of the vehicle? I drive a stock 2010 Camaro SS, so I imagine these springs provide a greater benefit for vehicles not equipped with the 1LE package, such as mine.

Hi DC5,

I wouldn't say they improved the handling. The 1LE is tough to improve without going crazy and replacing tons of stuff. At least that's my understanding.

They certainly didn't make the car handle noticeably worse to me.

I commute over 70 miles a day and have no major complaints. My only complaint, if I had to find one, would be that there is still a little bit more wheel gap than I would have considered perfect, but again, I think it's really good for being a daily driver and not wanting to jeopardize the stock suspension much. And the drop is noticeable so it's certainly an upgrade compared to the stock 4 x 4 look

MBaseman · 11-30-2016, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matty Ice

I have been going crazy of this lowering the 1le and not upsetting the factory handling. How would this set up work? BMR V8 -1.25(220lb) front spring with a rear V6 -1.2(430lb) spring? The V6 rear spring is roughly the same as the Pedders, DSE, PFADT spring rates. All of the spring manufactures have their own positives but when it comes to the 1le I can't have any of the negatives. I would love to go with the DSE springs but living in MKE with the roads here I just could not handle the -1.5 drop. My goal is to get rid of the horrendous wheel gap without any negative impact on handling, can't give that up. Thanks for the thoughts and opinions.

I was in the same exact boat but I drive better roads in Florida where I'm at. I really think you should do the Hotchkis. It will remove most of the gap and the car will not have the 4x4 look anymore. Could it be lower? Sure. But you may not want it lower since you don't want to ruin your suspension and you have some bad roads.

I get to drive around without worrying about the normal "lowered car" type things. Never scrapped my front splitter going in and out of driveways and dips. Don't forget how far out our front ends stick compared to other cars that people like to lower. It's not ideal to go too low IMO.

I had an '07 Z06 with a carbon fiber splitter, stock height. I had to drive it so cautiously that it was annoying at times. I couldn't confidently take the car anywhere, always fearing what bumps and dips I could run into that would scrape and break the splitter. I went through 3 splitters in 2 years!

DC5 · 11-30-2016, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBaseman

Hi DC5,

I wouldn't say they improved the handling. The 1LE is tough to improve without going crazy and replacing tons of stuff. At least that's my understanding.

They certainly didn't make the car handle noticeably worse to me.

I commute over 70 miles a day and have no major complaints. My only complaint, if I had to find one, would be that there is still a little bit more wheel gap than I would have considered perfect, but again, I think it's really good for being a daily driver and not wanting to jeopardize the stock suspension much. And the drop is noticeable so it's certainly an upgrade compared to the stock 4 x 4 look

Thank you for your feedback. And I agree concerning the Hotchkis lowering coil springs being slightly (1/4" or so) too high. The overwhelmingly positive reviews, however, overcome the ride height, which is not quite perfect.

Matty Ice · 11-30-2016, 03:42 PM

Norm, MBaseman-

I have a buddy with a 2015 1le on the -1.25 PFADT springs and it just looks amazing. I think my 1le is on the higher end of the spectrum. I know what you are saying, at 240lbs the car sinks .25 when I get in, so add that to the DSE -1.5+ drop, plus gas or luggage I could be looking a -1.8+. I don't want to do the -1.0 drop because my luck, it will only end up being -.6. My buddy said his springs were an improvement, but I don't think he can drive as good as me or pushes the car as hard as I do. I am attuned to the whole oversteer/understeer, just don't know all the suspension workings behind it. I used Justice Pete's alignment recommendation and now I can throw my car around how I want. I know when it is going to do any one of those things, too fast and hard on the brakes into a corner I will get a little understeer, too much throttle and the rear end gets loose, nail everything just right but too fast get a nice neutral drift. My plans are JPSS radius arm inserts, caster locks, and rear sway bar. I want to do the springs at the same time I do everything else. I would just go with the PFADT springs but it is my understanding they are a progressive and I want to stay with the linear spring. Justice Pete backs the DSE springs and with the listed spring rates the BMR V8/V6 combo looks the same on paper; 220/225 -1.5 vs. 220/430 -1.25/-1.2+. And I know, go to coil overs and I won't have this problem. : )

Norm Peterson · 12-01-2016, 10:28 AM

220/425 -1.5 ???

Spring swaps by themselves - either the 220/425 or the 220/430 adds in a little midcorner 'push', as the front spring rate is being upped by about 40% but the rear rate is only going up about 10%. I'm taking DSE's word for it on where the OE rates are at 156/383 for an SS. You might detect that a 'heavier' feel comes with the sensation of having more grip (I sure noticed this, having recently going from something like 130/140 OE to 260/220 BMR, ended up costing me a firmer rear sta-bar because the rear bar I had was already max'ed out at full firm).

I'm one of at least a few people who look at more than just the gaps at the tops of the tires, and I don't think that a wheel/tire that is noticeably uncentered in the opening looks better than centered with about the same amount of gap all around. Gaps to round-ish wheel openings down toward the bottom of the bodywork tend to get bigger as the car is lowered, which to me seems like a contrary thing to do. We may just have to disagree on this particular appearance item.

Wasn't going to suggest coilovers anyway. Bolting them in is the easy part, getting them in right involves cornerweighting, and I'm not entirely convinced that C/O damper shafts can be protected as well as the struts and shocks used with conventional "big springs".

Norm

besstia · 12-01-2016, 11:09 AM

Here's mine with a 1.25 springs from bmr.

DJ1LE · 12-01-2016, 11:32 AM

After much debate I decided to lower my 1Le on PFADT. Very happy with the ride quality and appearance!

Matty Ice · 12-01-2016, 01:46 PM

Thanks for the info Norm and yeah, that was a typo. I am just torn, I love driving my car, I hate walking up to it. I completely understand what you are saying about the lower wheel gap.

DJ1LE and besstia- Do you drive your 1le hard or track it? How does it handle now? Was it an improvement, meaning; Can you actually take turns faster or does it just seem like it because it doesn't roll as much? Is it still just as predictable in the turns? Does it oversteer more now? Thanks for the pics.

MarioSS · 12-01-2016, 02:37 PM

Is the BMR springs much harder than the PFADT or hotchkins springs?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

SSEssence · 12-01-2016, 03:32 PM

I lowered mine a few weeks back with BMR 1.25" springs, and the initial ride was pretty stiff. After alignment and clocking the bushings, it got a little smoother but is still pretty rough. I'm used to it already but definitely a big difference from stock. I daily drive about an hour each way and its not too bad. I've only scraped twice even driving on LA's horrible roads, but all in all, still happy with the ride and stance.

DJ1LE · 12-02-2016, 11:20 AM

Hey Matty ice,

I don't track my car. To be honest, since I lowered the car I haven't had the opportunity to take it out and push it to the limit to comment. Winter has arrived here so it's in hibernation for the next 5-6 months.

MarioSS · 12-02-2016, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSEssence

I lowered mine a few weeks back with BMR 1.25" springs, and the initial ride was pretty stiff. After alignment and clocking the bushings, it got a little smoother but is still pretty rough. I'm used to it already but definitely a big difference from stock. I daily drive about an hour each way and its not too bad. I've only scraped twice even driving on LA's horrible roads, but all in all, still happy with the ride and stance.

Thanks man!
You got me kinda worried lol

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

11-30-2016, 12:18 PM	#142
Norm Peterson corner barstool sitter Drives: 08 Mustang GT, 19 WRX Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Eastern Time Zone Posts: 6,990	Sounds like something's got to give here. If -1.5" is a guaranteed deal-breaker (for whatever reasons), I'm having a really hard time feeling much better about only a quarter inch less drop. Don't forget - the clearances gained by that quarter inch less drop go away when a good-size adult (say, 200 lbs) gets in as a passenger. Ignoring ride height at least for the moment, any other set of springs is likely to have a different front to rear balance than OE, meaning at least that to recover where the car's load transfer balance is now - you may have to look into getting different (and preferably adjustable) front and rear sta-bars. If you're attuned to what either heavier or lighter understeer feels like, separate from things like front grip, the tuning process won't be lengthy or difficult. Is there any chance that you could be happy enough with an even less aggressive lowering, more like 15 or 20 mm? Why not just let those who don't know what the 1LE is all about wonder why it doesn't fit the stereotyped image that says cars with modified suspensions have to look obviously different? Norm __________________ '08 GT coupe 5M (the occasional track toy) '19 WRX 6M (the family sedan . . . seriously)

12-01-2016, 10:28 AM	#147
Norm Peterson corner barstool sitter Drives: 08 Mustang GT, 19 WRX Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Eastern Time Zone Posts: 6,990	220/425 -1.5 ??? Spring swaps by themselves - either the 220/425 or the 220/430 adds in a little midcorner 'push', as the front spring rate is being upped by about 40% but the rear rate is only going up about 10%. I'm taking DSE's word for it on where the OE rates are at 156/383 for an SS. You might detect that a 'heavier' feel comes with the sensation of having more grip (I sure noticed this, having recently going from something like 130/140 OE to 260/220 BMR, ended up costing me a firmer rear sta-bar because the rear bar I had was already max'ed out at full firm). I'm one of at least a few people who look at more than just the gaps at the tops of the tires, and I don't think that a wheel/tire that is noticeably uncentered in the opening looks better than centered with about the same amount of gap all around. Gaps to round-ish wheel openings down toward the bottom of the bodywork tend to get bigger as the car is lowered, which to me seems like a contrary thing to do. We may just have to disagree on this particular appearance item. Wasn't going to suggest coilovers anyway. Bolting them in is the easy part, getting them in right involves cornerweighting, and I'm not entirely convinced that C/O damper shafts can be protected as well as the struts and shocks used with conventional "big springs". Norm __________________ '08 GT coupe 5M (the occasional track toy) '19 WRX 6M (the family sedan . . . seriously)

12-01-2016, 11:09 AM	#148
besstia Drives: 2011 Camaro 2SS Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 42 View My Garage	Here's mine with a 1.25 springs from bmr. Attached Images

12-01-2016, 11:32 AM	#149
DJ1LE Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LE Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Alberta Posts: 8	After much debate I decided to lower my 1Le on PFADT. Very happy with the ride quality and appearance! Attached Images

11-30-2016, 11:41 AM	#141
Matty Ice Drives: 2015 SS/RS 1LE Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 537	I have been going crazy of this lowering the 1le and not upsetting the factory handling. How would this set up work? BMR V8 -1.25(220lb) front spring with a rear V6 -1.2(430lb) spring? The V6 rear spring is roughly the same as the Pedders, DSE, PFADT spring rates. All of the spring manufactures have their own positives but when it comes to the 1le I can't have any of the negatives. I would love to go with the DSE springs but living in MKE with the roads here I just could not handle the -1.5 drop. My goal is to get rid of the horrendous wheel gap without any negative impact on handling, can't give that up. Thanks for the thoughts and opinions.

11-30-2016, 03:42 PM	#146
Matty Ice Drives: 2015 SS/RS 1LE Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 537	Norm, MBaseman- I have a buddy with a 2015 1le on the -1.25 PFADT springs and it just looks amazing. I think my 1le is on the higher end of the spectrum. I know what you are saying, at 240lbs the car sinks .25 when I get in, so add that to the DSE -1.5+ drop, plus gas or luggage I could be looking a -1.8+. I don't want to do the -1.0 drop because my luck, it will only end up being -.6. My buddy said his springs were an improvement, but I don't think he can drive as good as me or pushes the car as hard as I do. I am attuned to the whole oversteer/understeer, just don't know all the suspension workings behind it. I used Justice Pete's alignment recommendation and now I can throw my car around how I want. I know when it is going to do any one of those things, too fast and hard on the brakes into a corner I will get a little understeer, too much throttle and the rear end gets loose, nail everything just right but too fast get a nice neutral drift. My plans are JPSS radius arm inserts, caster locks, and rear sway bar. I want to do the springs at the same time I do everything else. I would just go with the PFADT springs but it is my understanding they are a progressive and I want to stay with the linear spring. Justice Pete backs the DSE springs and with the listed spring rates the BMR V8/V6 combo looks the same on paper; 220/225 -1.5 vs. 220/430 -1.25/-1.2+. And I know, go to coil overs and I won't have this problem. : )

12-01-2016, 01:46 PM	#150
Matty Ice Drives: 2015 SS/RS 1LE Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 537	Thanks for the info Norm and yeah, that was a typo. I am just torn, I love driving my car, I hate walking up to it. I completely understand what you are saying about the lower wheel gap. DJ1LE and besstia- Do you drive your 1le hard or track it? How does it handle now? Was it an improvement, meaning; Can you actually take turns faster or does it just seem like it because it doesn't roll as much? Is it still just as predictable in the turns? Does it oversteer more now? Thanks for the pics.

12-01-2016, 02:37 PM	#151
MarioSS Drives: 2010 Camaro SS (RS LS3) Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Jo Posts: 302	Is the BMR springs much harder than the PFADT or hotchkins springs? Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

12-01-2016, 03:32 PM	#152
SSEssence Instagram: Sangstah Drives: 2019 Camaro 1LE Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Buena Park, CA. Posts: 2,836 View My Garage	I lowered mine a few weeks back with BMR 1.25" springs, and the initial ride was pretty stiff. After alignment and clocking the bushings, it got a little smoother but is still pretty rough. I'm used to it already but definitely a big difference from stock. I daily drive about an hour each way and its not too bad. I've only scraped twice even driving on LA's horrible roads, but all in all, still happy with the ride and stance.

12-02-2016, 11:20 AM	#153
DJ1LE Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LE Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Alberta Posts: 8	Hey Matty ice, I don't track my car. To be honest, since I lowered the car I haven't had the opportunity to take it out and push it to the limit to comment. Winter has arrived here so it's in hibernation for the next 5-6 months.