My JBA shorty install...

[Beauwulf]

On the subject of the Trifecta Tune... I did my first runs at the track on the tune with NO improvement in either time or, more importantly, MPH! I did not have the tranny tune installed for these first runs so I could give a read of how much just the engine tune helped in the 1/4 mile. I loaded the TCM tune and was in the lanes when the rain came Friday nite so I didn't get a run with it installed.

Here are my 2 runs... You will notice that both are lower than my best of 14.18@ 96.42 MPH. I did not have the same good conditions this time so, some slowing is expected... like .2-.3 seconds. I also posted slower 60' times! I lost .10 from my previous there which could be heat soaked IAT to some degree.



Now, I know these 2 runs should have shown some improvement it ET and MPH if there was really a 24 HP gain from the tune... even if the conditions were not good traction wise the additional HP should have shown up in more MPH! I'm just not seeing it!

Like Scrming, I logged the runs and will send them to Vince for review and possibly a tweak here or there..... It is possible that the AFR Vince has set in this tune is "safe" but doesn't make HP on this engine and we will need to go leaner/richer to get the results....

I must also report that I've shown a loss in gas milage of 2-3 MPG in town on this tune.

I did also try out the tranny tune and find the shifting to be somewhat better but not enough for my tastes!

I would suggest anyone considering this tune to wait a couple of weeks till we get this sorted out better and can give definitive results on the gains.

I'm reminded of an old saying... "just because you can doesn't mean that you should!" yet!

[scrming]

Ok... just to add what Beauwulf said...

I did in fact dyno my car yesterday. We started out with Vince's tune in the car and remember this is with the JBAs... We did 3 pulls. The results were from 250 RWHP to 254 RWHP and 228 RWTQ to 233 RWTQ. My previous best dyno session was 255 RWHP to 233 RWTQ.

I then loaded the stock tune back into the car and we made 2 more pulls. They were 254 and 253 RWHP with 231 RWTQ.

Today I went out and did a 0-60 run... Absolutely identical to my last 0-60 run before the JBAs and Tune...

So basically the cars performance is unchanged with the JBAs and Vince's Tune. And to me this goes along exactly with what Beauwulf found... For some reason our cars just aren't responding to the tune...

Now, I did log both a tuned and untuned pull on the dyno... So i have that data...

I think before we all rush to judgment on all of this we need to wait for Vince to get back and review all Beauwulf's data and mine... Definitely want to be as fair as possible!

I am a bit embarrassed though... I made some casual observations and it's apparent that my butt dyno 2000 needs to be recalibrated! I should have known better to comment on things without have all my data! argh...

So now I just need to wait until Vince gets back...

[PieNsky]

At least Mhorg Beast didn't rag on ya!

[Beauwulf]

Originally Posted by scrming

I am a bit embarrassed though... I made some casual observations and it's apparent that my butt dyno 2000 needs to be recalibrated! I should have known better to comment on things without have all my data! argh...

You may not need to be embarassed there M8! I've been thinking, there may be an, as yet, undiscovered perimeter in all that code in the ECM that is causing the ECM to un-learn these mods! I had initial runs with the Airaid (on dynoliscious) of 14.03 @ 97 MPH but, after driving a few miles, the car reverted to my previous times.

We may be seeing the same thing here. After the install, we have actual gains but, after driving some, the ECM reverts to the stock settings....

[scrming]

Originally Posted by PieNsky

At least Mhorg Beast didn't rag on ya!

OUCH!!! LOL!

I was really trying to hold off on my comments but I ended up giving into peer pressure since everyone was asking for my impressions! However I did actually BUY the dyno time to PROVE MYSELF WRONG! That is why I give folks like Mhorg Beast, who claim a mod added "AWESOME POWER"... I don't care who you are, and that applies to me too, you just can't trust your butt dyno, regardless of how accurate you think it is!

[PieNsky]

Hey, I follow what all y'all are doing on here and appreciate the time and money put forth.
That is also why I did the dyno and will do it again with the Vararam as everyone wants to know what the real world numbers will be on it.
Glad you took the MB ribbing OK! My humor is an acquired taste!

[scrming]

Originally Posted by Beauwulf

You may not need to be embarassed there M8! I've been thinking, there may be a yet undiscovered perimeter in all that code in the ECM that is causing the ECM to un-learn these mods! I had initial runs with the Airaid (on dynoliscious) of 14.03 @ 97 MPH but, after driving a few miles, the car reverted to my previous times.

We may be seeing the same thing here. After the install, we have actual gains but, afer driving some, the ECM reverts to the stock settings....

Funny you mention that... Scott was wondering the same kind of thing... I also went back to the original tune thread... Vince actually swapped in a new ECM into the test car (that way they could go back to the stock ECM)... And it doesn't sound like they did any on the street driving until after they were don on the dyno... hmmm... This is why I think it's important to not rush to judgment on anything...

[PieNsky]

Originally Posted by Beauwulf

You may not need to be embarassed there M8! I've been thinking, there may be a yet undiscovered perimeter in all that code in the ECM that is causing the ECM to un-learn these mods! I had initial runs with the Airaid (on dynoliscious) of 14.03 @ 97 MPH but, after driving a few miles, the car reverted to my previous times.

We may be seeing the same thing here. After the install, we have actual gains but, afer driving some, the ECM reverts to the stock settings....

What I was told by another manufacturer, the CAI were leaning out the AF and the ECM put it back so there were no power gains.

[scrming]

Originally Posted by PieNsky

Hey, I follow what all y'all are doing on here and appreciate the time and money put forth.
That is also why I did the dyno and will do it again with the Vararam as everyone wants to know what the real world numbers will be on it.
Glad you took the MB ribbing OK! My humor is an acquired taste!

it's all good!

[Beauwulf]

Yes, I have Dynolicious and a Kat Matrix and I've done some limited track comparison with both. The IPhone app was pretty close in ET (within .1-.2) but way off in MPH. The Kat was just too much a pain to use at the track but it doesn't seem to be any more accurate than Dynolicious ....

Originally Posted by brjray

Do either of you have an iPhone/iPod touch with Dynolicious? Its only a $13 app and seems to work well. Your device has to be attached to the car because sliding around in the console throws it off. I tested it on my GTO about a year ago and borrowed a coworkers Gtech SS and it was less than 0.1 sec difference between the two. It clocked my 04 GTO at 13.6 on mild launches which matched the M/T mag test. Once this frozen tundra warms up in the spring I will see what it clocks my car at. I would hope that after spending that much on a tune the change would be enough for a Gtech or equivalent to notice.

Thanks for the updates on the tunes! Will definitely put that thought on hold until it gets straightened out.

I am envious of you being able to hit the drags in Jan!!!!

[scrming]

Originally Posted by brjray

It has to be a torque management setting. Even if it reverted to the stock tune you should still make more power with less exhaust/intake restrictions. The ECU is gunning for a set torque number I bet.

The TB SS had a torque monitoring system and would flash a code if you had too much torque output. They must have taken it one step further and used that data to calibrate the tune. I sent this link to beauwulf. Let me know what you think.
http://www.lingenfelter.com/mm5/merc...Category_Code=

Talk about an insurance policy on the SS model!! We'll never be close unless you can cut this parachute from the ECU!

I'm kind of leaning towards something like this but I haven't seen any warning lights, codes, etc.

[KMPrenger]

I hate to say it, but I hope it is something like what has been described above in the last few posts thats holding you guys back...but even more, I hope that whatever it is can be altered or disabled.

It makes no sense...something is off somewhere. How can a car tuned by Vince with just a CAI get some 270 something horses on the dyno...and show a huge gain (just one example of many, not singling him out at all) But a car like scrmings has headers, exhaust, slight change to the air intake (assuming you still have that alteration on your car) and a tune...and not be putting out over 255? Worse yet...isnt that just 10 or so horses over your first base run? Definitely correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm not dogging on the V6 as I love mine, and I'm envious of what scrming, murray, and others have done to your cars, but after all the promising results we've seen from many of these products, I'd be expecting at least 280 to 290 at the rear wheels.

Sorry for my slight rant lol, but Man, I wish we had someone that was "in the know" about this mystery.

[PieNsky]

I know what your saying. I'm at 268HP with long tubes and exhaust. Don't know what I can get with a CAI. Back and forth with the tune. It seems that trying to get 300HP NA is going to be like the breaking the 3 minute mile.

[firefighterEMT33]

Originally Posted by PieNsky

Hey, I follow what all y'all are doing on here and appreciate the time and money put forth.

I agree, this is GREAT stuff guys. The no BS information I get here is priceless and thanks for all your time, effort, and analysis.

Also, on a completely unrelated note, I've been out of town for the past 10 days and reading these forums is the only thing that has helped me get through that time span without my car! It's like oxygen, you don't realize how much you need it until you don't have it.

Back on a more related note, I should have an Airaid, JBAs, and the MRT V2 in a couple weeks. I'll be sure to post videos and my seat of the pants dyno then.