Serious ZL1 Defects

[880]

Good luck!

Hopefully you can enjoy your car soon.

[mr02Z/28]

Actually, "winchester bob" I myself met 1 of 2 5th Generation owners at the dealership where i bought my 2011 1SS.....Both had warranties revoked by GM/Chevy or whoever you wanna name due to "aftermarket mods" installed...The guy I met and talked to said his warranty wasn't covered because the CAI he installed caused an "engine management issue" and also something went wrong with MAF meter... Any non-believers can call Bryner Chevrolet and ask their techs...


Merry X-Mas

[01pewterz28]

Originally Posted by CAM ZL1

After waiting most of today, I decided to give the dealership service manager a call to see about any progress. He informed me that the car has not been looked into, let alone worked on since last Friday. He was in contact with the GM service manager, who authorized the order of a replacement crate motor, which he was quite certain didn't include the supercharger assembly. He said that delivery would be either Thursday or Friday from somewhere in Ohio.

I asked if the engineer previously consulted or any engineer was coming to the dealership and what he responded was quite shocking. The GM engineer he had talked with said explicitly, "The LSA engine block has known porosity issues and an engineer doesn't need to oversee the process." Given the fact that the service tech found no existing bulletins on any source of oil leaks in a ZL1 or LSA motor, it seems like Chevy and GM are trying to keep secret what is internally a known issue.

I asked about getting the damaged exhaust replaced, as can be seen in the photos on page 1, the oil did quite severe damage. The dealership service manager said he inquired with the GM service manager about replacement, and he responded toward the side of cleaning it. At this point, I think that the oil burns on the exhaust warrant a replacement along with another new flywheel if scoring is present, which I stressed to the service manager.

With the delivery date of sometime this week, the estimated time of repair (best case scenario) is set at next Wednesday. By which the car will have been in for service 21 days of the 40 since I took delivery. It will be interesting whether this porosity issue rears its head anywhere else or if GM does already know the situation and is trying to keep it as quiet as possible. At this point, I am at the mercy of GM and as many people have pointed out, they seem to be trying to resolve my problem as cheaply as possible.

Well let them go ahead and replace it one more trip to the shop for the oil leaking issue and you can start your Lemon Law claim. I know it sucks for you knowing you have a ZL1 you paid good money for and it's sitting in the shop. Let them try to resolve the issue and if not it's buy back time.

[mr02Z/28]

Honestly, if they deem the "aftermarket Mod" caused a failure then how can you expect a warranty coverage and you know that's what is going to happen... They will deny warranty coverage anyway they can and anyway they seem fit.. That's why I can't see GM/Chevy covering these ZL1s at race events(even thought they say they will), especially all these ZL1 owners with added HP parts installed... My take on it is that GM will say the car was made to handle the rated 580HP anything above that will not be covered due to added stress on parts and it wasn't made to withstand more HP.. Wait and see...

[CAM ZL1]

Originally Posted by ZEDL1

A very tough circumstance for our friend to be in,for certain. Especially after the long and anticipation-filled wait for his car. I truly hope that in the end it all works out so that you're happy. You just have to feel awful for him.
I'm curious, since the ZL1 LSA engine is essentially the same as that in the much-produced CTS-V, have any owners of that vehicle had similar problems?

When I was originally looking for any sources of information for oil leaks from ZL1's or LSA's I came across a forum of CTS-V owners who pretty much all were mentioning some small leaks, some of them were even resorting to blaming Mobil1 Synthetic oil for eating away at seals. After hearing today that "LSA Engine Block porosity is a known issue..." I wouldn't be suprised if many more have casting defects even if not as severe as the swiss cheese like area I imagine in my ZL1 to have caused oil leaks like I have seen.

[Southern Comfort]

Originally Posted by Chevy Fanatic

Is there a possibility that the crankcase ventilation system is at fault (pinched hose, or?) causing crankcase pressure to build to a point where pressure is pushing oil out of the seals / gaskets?

Or pcv valve installed backwards. Or excess blow by from a bad ring. I would want a Compression check and crank case ventalation test before jumping into a motor swap. I suppose they have take a big swing at it this time to avoid a lemon status.
Ironic. Some folks try to fix the problem. The rest try to fix GM.

[rpepka]

Thanks for the update. It sounds so similar to the 2010 issue with the L99's. Hundreds of cars running slow and when you took it to the dealer they kept saying "there is nothing wrong". My son in his 2000 Trans Am was kicking my ass by 4 car lengths and the V-6's were faster then the 8's. Over the years I have noticed the first year out of most models there are issues. It is sad when you have to fight for what should be automatic.

I am so sorry for your trouble, I sincerely hope they give you a new car quickly. There is some reason for this to be happening to you, there is most likely a blessing at the end. Your patients is remarkable.

[Russell James]

That is crazy that they are replacing the engine without even diagnosing the cause of the oil leak.

I've seen block porosity on Gen IVs, it's very rare and looks nothing like what is in your photos. The couple that I diagnosed were very slow weeping out of the back of the block, that caused a very small occasional drip. To get oil blasting everywhere like on this one, I'd be much more suspicious of other leak prone areas.

I wonder if they have even tried pressurizing the oil system with the engine hot but off. That is how I diagnosed one truck that everyone was sure was the block, but was just the rear main. Plug an oil pressure tank (new engine pre luber) into the oil pressure sender port. Hit the engine with about 100 psi of oil w/dye, and watch for the weeping with the black light. I'd bet they are just putting dye in and driving it all over, which when oil is blowing everywhere will never find the cause.

[Russell James]

Originally Posted by CAM ZL1

When I was originally looking for any sources of information for oil leaks from ZL1's or LSA's I came across a forum of CTS-V owners who pretty much all were mentioning some small leaks, some of them were even resorting to blaming Mobil1 Synthetic oil for eating away at seals. After hearing today that "LSA Engine Block porosity is a known issue..." I wouldn't be suprised if many more have casting defects even if not as severe as the swiss cheese like area I imagine in my ZL1 to have caused oil leaks like I have seen.

Highly unlikely.

I think they are flat out guessing at the porosity as a cause. That is extremely rare. And it is easy to diagnose.

I'd say, if the block is porous... prove it. Plug an oil pre luber into the sender port... pump in some pressurized oil with dye while watching the back of the block with a black light. It will be readilly obvious if that is actually the cause. There will be an area in the back of the block that slowly starts to glow and weep. Completely different than the significant leak that you have.

I'd ask this question.... have you tried plugging in a pre luber with oil/dye and watching the black of the block?

A porous block is pretty easy to diagnose with a tech that is skilled with dye testing. And not just throwing it in the oil and driving around until it is everywhere. Tough to find leaks take a strategy and a more methodical approach to the dye testing. Their oil pan leak was a guess, now the block porous theory is another guess....

A better tech is needed. A new engine may fix it, but that also puts the car through tons of tear down and the future u-touched it issues. A much better approach is always to actually identify the real cause of the problem first.

Would you replace your house because of a tough to find roof leak... or find a better roofer.

[djsfordgt]

Sorry to hear of your dilemma. *Here's my suggestion. *Lay out all of the receipts, detail all of the conversations/meetings with tech people, and videotape the car in all it's disabled and disassembled gore/glory. *Videotape your complete experience, describing *the few miles actually behind the wheel compared to all the time chasing back and forth to the dealer for service, excuses, and reasons why your $60,000 pony car is not running. *Then assemble the final video, show it to the dealership principals, e mail it GM customer service, and politely tell them your next avenue is to post it on YouTube where the complete nightmare will be detailed for everyone to see.
Tell them you want your money *back or a COMPLETELY new car. *Then tell them you're linking the YouTube to every major car forum on Camaros, Corvettes, Mustangs, Chevys, Fords, etc., and that you anticipate somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 million views by next weekend. *Remind them of the United Breaks Guitars YouTube that cost United Airlines dearly, and that was about a $3500 guitar, not a $60,000ish dream car from a taxpayer subsidized manufacturer. *No need for a lawyer(yet), and probably a lot less time to resolve it in your favor.

[Sajonf]

^^^Threatening GM is not going to provide a more favorable outcome for the OP. As much as I would like to see him get a completely new car as replacement or his money back it is not going ot happen unless he meets the criteria for the lemon law - which it sounds like he's pretty damn close.

Everyone who is saying demand a new car is delusional - a car manufacturer is not going to just give someone a new car out of good faith without exhausting all other options. It sounds like the OP understands this fact and is patiently and maturely going through the process until the law dictates a complete replacement.

Warranites and lemon laws are in place to protect the consumer and the manufacturer like it or not.

[htron50]

Yes.... to have the "heart" of the car fail so early with many adjacent parts blathered and baked is simply an issue GM "knows in it's heart" should be remedied with a new car for our friend. Let them take it back, fix it, and sell it as used. But, the OP shouldn't have been denied the joy of reaping what his $60,000 was intended to produce. IMHO.

[CAM ZL1]

Today the crate motor arrived and the old engine was dropped from the car, along with seemingly just about every piece that can be removed.

[dallazl1]

All I can saw is wow! I am sorry to hear you are going through this and hope it all gets sorted out real soon.