Transmission output shaft

[UCF w00t]

Although I was using launch control when mine snapped, there's no way this is caused by launch control. Mine didn't move far enough (read: at all) to get any wheel hop. I don't think the rear wheels turned at all. It just snapped right at the launch. And to those (including fbod in the past) saying "go launch it and if it doesn't break, you're fine". With all due respect, this is complete BS for several reasons. The first, you shouldn't have to grenade the entire transmission on a new car to find out that it, in fact, did have a problem. Secondly, mine broke after I had used LC and other hard launch techniques at least a dozen times. I had over 4300 miles on my car. I had even made 6 passes at the track before it broke (most with LC).

So please, stop spreading these fallacies.

Really, my main complaint is this. There is a problem. GM promised they would notify the affected customers. They said that if you don't get a call, your car was fine. Well I'm my car is proof that this did NOT happen. This has been ignored for almost 4 months now. It's time to come clean.

And to those that mentioned GM releasing information caused 'panic du jours', this is false. Every one of them started out as rumors or people just noticing things (break weights). Once GM came clean, the panic stopped. This very topic is another example. Output shafts were breaking, people started panicing. GM put a hold and came clean with the problem and promised to notify those affected, the panic stopped. Now that they haven't lived up to their promise and more are still breaking, the 'panic' is starting again; and rightfully so.

[Ltdodge]

well what will happen to those cars that want to mod later down the road? if two years from now you want to add headers, and tune and the car breaks will you get hosed since you modified the car and you no longer have warranty? that's what concerns me. I'm sure Gm knows many will mod their cars so when they do their warranty is no longer valid and they will be off the hook for a faulty transmission shaft that they knew would snap one day.....that's why they rather wait till they break and try to deny your warranty later because of mods...

hell they some guy here cant even get his faulty paint covered under warranty

[NAHURRY]

The thing that I'm afraid is going to happen is someone's going to pull out
(thats affected) on a busy HWY and break -it, and here comes a fleet of
18 wheelers thats not going to be able to stop in time....Come on GM.

[dstairs]

Originally Posted by 10on20s

Hey i was just in Lake Jackson in my IOM from Cali

I saw you at Leo Martin Martin Chevrolet, nice looking car.

[NAHURRY]

Originally Posted by Ltdodge

well what will happen to those cars that want to mod later down the road? if two years from now you want to add headers, and tune and the car breaks will you get hosed since you modified the car and you no longer have warranty? that's what concerns me. I'm sure Gm knows many will mod their cars so when they do their warranty is no longer valid and they will be off the hook for a faulty transmission shaft that they knew would snap one day.....that's why they rather wait till they break and try to deny your warranty later because of mods...

hell they some guy here cant even get his faulty paint covered under warranty

This too!

[UCF w00t]

Originally Posted by Ltdodge

well what will happen to those cars that want to mod later down the road? if two years from now you want to add headers, and tune and the car breaks will you get hosed since you modified the car and you no longer have warranty? that's what concerns me. I'm sure Gm knows many will mod their cars so when they do their warranty is no longer valid and they will be off the hook for a faulty transmission shaft that they knew would snap one day.....that's why they rather wait till they break and try to deny your warranty later because of mods...

hell they some guy here cant even get his faulty paint covered under warranty

Assuming they know exactly which ones are affected (they very well may not have records of it), the biggest factor is some just won't ever break. Many of these cars will sit in a garage and hardly ever be driven. Others will only be driven by grandma. Not everyone will drive this car like it was meant to be driven.

That being said, I don't think it requires hard driving for it to happen. There was one instance posted here where it snapped under normal driving. Obviously driving it hard will hasten the issue but it is not the cause.

All metal fatigues over time. When you're putting metal under varying loads all the time like this is, it's going to fatigue faster. When you have a metal that was not heat treated and hardened properly, this is going to dramatically affect the life of the part. While in theory it is possible to break on the highway (particularly if you downshift and mash the gas) the most likely place is from a start, especilly a hard start. This is when the most force is being exerted on the shaft.

[camaro5]

Originally Posted by Supermans

If you are correct, then how are future models being fixed? I think it is a single machine out of perhaps 3 or 4 that made these shafts from the supplier and they simply got rid of or fixed the machine. (If they only had one machine performing the task and the problem lies with the metal itself via impurities etc, then there would be no way of knowing exactly how many are affected. However if a couple machines were used and the metal is all the same quality, then it would be easy to calculate how many Camaro's will have faulty parts that may fail under certain conditions like launch control or anything else causing wheel hop that could snap the faulty part. I do remember in one thread the replacement shaft was thicker.. If that is so, then are all of them being installed thicker? I guess what we would want to know is if the problem really is fixed and if so how? Or else camaro5's theory may be the most logical of all the theories.

I agree with you, and was thinking limited part failure too. I'm just brain-storming about all will break w/ launch control.

Originally Posted by Supermans

I don't like your tone of voice. Al can speak to me if he wants directly about this issue. I am not going to calm down on this issue until we have a resolution. I'm glad dealers are able to get the cars fixed in under 48 hours and get them back to the owners. What re-enforcements were done to the car to make sure it doesn't break again under the same stress? From what I hear it is a thicker cam shaft however I don't know who to believe on this issue at this point. And you don't tell me to "shut up and drive", I have every right to be concerned and to want answers.. If you don't like me asking the questions and being tough on GM, then you're in the wrong forum..

Agreed 100%.



Tell Al to spill the beans. If he's losing sleep, I want to know why.

Is it simply a small batch of defective parts?

Or a design or programming flaw in all units?

We're not going away until we get answers.

Do you need the mainstream media to pick this up AGAIN, before you give the buying public answers?

Or should we just buy 370Z's, and learn how to live without torque?

OK - I want torque!


EDIT

Oh snap!

If Al Oppenheiser, GM Chief Engineer is losing sleep now, it's NOT a simple, limited part defect.

Al would be sleeping like a baby, knowing the problem was fixed.

Hmmm, so what we have is a design defect, that Al Oppenheiser, GM Chief Engineer can't solve, after months of being made aware of it!

Now that's scary, and would explain GM's wall of silence on the issue.

[CynAgain]

There's really no way to prove who is or who is not effected until the problem can reliably be reproduced. How can they recall a car/transmission if they don't fully understand the problem? Four months is a short period of time when testing the theories.

In the grand scheme of things there is a small percentage of cars that have experienced this problem. Collecting information from the customer about when/where/what happened is not 100% reliable as information traverses the process.

It needs to be investigated and proven to conclusively to state the problem. There are thousands of testing hours on these vehicles which go far beyond what we as individuals are willing to do with our cars.

Believe me, I've done some stupid things with this car. One in particular, a complete mistake, was dropping into second gear at 80mph. She bucked HARD and I thought for sure I broke something but alas a couple of thousand miles later... She's fine.

Like UCF w00t said :

Assuming they know exactly which ones are affected (they very well may not have records of it), the biggest factor is some just won't ever break.

[UCF w00t]

Dealers have no way of fixing this within 48hrs. They don't next day air the part. Unless you live close to their warehouse (I know they have one in Charlotte, that's where mine came from) it will take some time for it to arrive by ground. Then it will take the better part of a day to get it installed. They don't exactly stock replacement transmissions!

[camaro5]

You know,

Whatever happens, it doesn't matter. We love this car madly, and simply want the best for it and us.

Supermans is crazy about his IOM SS (yes, I'm jealous) , and just wants to know whether or not he needs an updated transmission that will not break on him.

Nobody wants a driveline to fail on a new car, especially if it is preventable.

But make no mistake...It's just a car, and I'm not mad about anything.

People who get mad about cars or forums, need some REAL problems. They're coming, don't worry.

[CamaroSpike23]

sorry guys, I've been busy all weekend, but I will get back in here and reply to everyone tomorrow.

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

Although I was using launch control when mine snapped, there's no way this is caused by launch control. Mine didn't move far enough (read: at all) to get any wheel hop. I don't think the rear wheels turned at all. It just snapped right at the launch. And to those (including fbod in the past) saying "go launch it and if it doesn't break, you're fine". With all due respect, this is complete BS for several reasons. The first, you shouldn't have to grenade the entire transmission on a new car to find out that it, in fact, did have a problem. Secondly, mine broke after I had used LC and other hard launch techniques at least a dozen times. I had over 4300 miles on my car. I had even made 6 passes at the track before it broke (most with LC).

So please, stop spreading these fallacies.

Really, my main complaint is this. There is a problem. GM promised they would notify the affected customers. They said that if you don't get a call, your car was fine. Well I'm my car is proof that this did NOT happen. This has been ignored for almost 4 months now. It's time to come clean.

And to those that mentioned GM releasing information caused 'panic du jours', this is false. Every one of them started out as rumors or people just noticing things (break weights). Once GM came clean, the panic stopped. This very topic is another example. Output shafts were breaking, people started panicing. GM put a hold and came clean with the problem and promised to notify those affected, the panic stopped. Now that they haven't lived up to their promise and more are still breaking, the 'panic' is starting again; and rightfully so.

excellent post. I couldn't have put it any better.. 4 months and counting now..

Originally Posted by camaro5

Hmmm, so what we have is a design defect, that Al Oppenheiser, GM Chief Engineer can't solve, after months of being made aware of it!

Now that's scary, and would explain GM's wall of silence on the issue.

Let's hope this isn't the case. It would be a shame if GM being silent about this is because of a design defect and GM hasn't figured out in four months how to fix the problem.

The output shafts snapping in the same place each time leads me to believe it has to be one of two scenario's. One being camaro5's theory above (design flaw) and the other having it be the machine that the suppliers used making the shafts weak in the same place. Furthermore having multiple machines would explain some having a problem and others being ok. And like I said in a post above, GM can know how many Camaro's are affected by taking the number of machines used to making the shafts and dividing them up with the number of Camaro's produced up until the point the machine was fixed. Using launch control may weaken the already weak shafts that are affected which is why we are being told not to use launch control. With that said, that would simply be putting ff the problem to happen later on.. That is not something any of us want.

[ffrcobra_65]

guys...so, to lessen the chance of breaking the output shaft, are we supposed to hit the button twice to turn stab and trac controls off or hold the button down to turn EVERYTHING off? and do we keep them off ALL the time or just when launching hard?

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

guys...so, to lessen the chance of breaking the output shaft, are we supposed to hit the button twice to turn stab and trac controls off or hold the button down to turn EVERYTHING off? and do we keep them off ALL the time or just when launching hard?

First of all, we don't know whether or not even driving the vehicle safely and normally in the long term will cause the shaft to break. We do not know if it is a flaw in all Camaro's, or a supplier batch of faulty parts, or a flaw in the overall design. What we do know is a wide range of Camaro's are affected. We know they are snapping in the same place. And we are told not to use launch control by a member here familiar with (but unable to tell us details) with the situation. So to answer your question, it depends on the answers we get to the unknowns at this point, and in fact it may be to your benefit to have it break so you can get it replaced with a stronger or less faulty part if one even exists. So you see our dilemma here.