2013 GT500 laps the ring quicker then ZL1

[72MachOne99GT]

Okay guys.. we all get that the timing method is less official than the already non official time that GM put up in their ZL1.

At least the ZL1 was timed on site, by *hopefully* an honest and stop watch literate group.

Having said that, there are a LOT of Ford guys who don't care if the ZL1 or GT500 win a nearly 8 minute time comparison around a poorly engineered circle in Germany (hopefully everyone gets that it really is a poorly engineered CIRCLE)....

All this video shows is that, as someone else put it, the goal posts are severely narrowing.. first the GT500 couldn't navigate a right hand turn, then it couldn't take a turn at speed, then it couldn't manage more than 1-3 laps, then it couldn't compete at nur-burg-ri*u*ng, now it only wins in straight aways...

Give the damn thing some credit.

That's all some people want. Me? I don't give a shit... I was one of the retarded hillbilly inbreds who didn't opt for the performance pack and track pack cause I don't care about turning. (seriously, I have to get out and lift the rear end and pivot my car at 4 way stops)

[spyderbuddy]

Originally Posted by motorhead

Even if that is a good time, it sure looks like the person driving really had to manhandle the thing to get there.

I noticed that also, looks to be a beast to have to manhandle around the track.

[avcbm]

All I can say if you’re basing the outcome on a 7 and a half min race, and the cars are separated by less than 4 seconds, no one is the clear dominate winner. Any car could beat any car on the same track on a given day. NO ONE CAR DOMINATES THE OTHER on a road course I would say it’s about as even as it can get. Ford did a heck of job on the engine in the GT500, without a doubt it is the center piece of car, as GM did a heck of job on the suspension and traction management on the ZL1, and the brakes and suspension on the Z28.

[hockeylover86]

Originally Posted by strych9

I will never run on the 'ring. I doubt anyone here will, either. That said, why bother? They're both high-perf vehicles, just different flavors. Pick your flavor, pay the man, then GTFO.

Quoted for truth..

In a random encounter on the highway, I doubt they are going to find a walmart parking lot, set up cones, and break out the stopwatches.

If a comparison will be made in the "wild", it will be side by side on the highway, on a roll, right foot to the floor.

There the turning ability of the ZL1 will come in handy as he takes the next exit to avoid more embarrassment..

Flame suit on for the "that's not safe on public roads" crowd...

[Normagene]

Originally Posted by hockeylover86

Quoted for truth..

In a random encounter on the highway, I doubt they are going to find a walmart parking lot, set up cones, and break out the stopwatches.

If a comparison will be made in the "wild", it will be side by side on the highway, on a roll, right foot to the floor.

There the turning ability of the ZL1 will come in handy as he takes the next exit to avoid more embarrassment..

Flame suit on for the "that's not safe on public roads" crowd...

That all (above) depends on the drivers. I'm sure we've all seen way way more than of our share of idiots behind the wheel of every make and model. I've seen from 16 to 90 years old in these two beasts. Worst idiots are the ones that THINK they can drive, weave in and out of traffic, and have zero respect for others on the road. For sure either one of these cars in the wrong hands only results in death, of the driver and occupants or their foolish driving ability that ends up killing someone else. My gay friend drives his Mustang too fast, but he will tell you the best thing about it is its great for picking up his Boy-Toys!


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[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by TheReaper

I like the ZL1 and the 500 and I am not a troll.

This graphic has many errors of omission as the metrics being shown are, by and large, the ones that favor the GT500. Did you even read the MotorTrend comparison?

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._shelby_gt500/

"While the Mustang was a half-second faster around the track than the ZL1 on its best lap, it couldn't repeat the performance. By the end of the first lap, the brakes had already begun to heat up so badly, we could smell them from the pits as the car passed by on the front straight. By the end of the second lap, the Shelby had lost more than half of its advantage over the ZL1, turning a 1:39.03. By the third lap, the Mustang was behind the Camaro, turning a 1:39.30. The ZL1, meanwhile, never deviated by more than two-tenths of a second."

"So, yes, the Mustang turned a faster lap, but if it's not repeatable, is it really a win? Find a 2.23-mile autocross and you might have something, but in any road race, the Mustang is going to quickly fall behind."

By the third lap the Camaro was in front for good.

The biggest difference between these two cars was the as-tested price from the MotorTrend comparison ZL1: $56,365, GT500: $64,770. That's a 12% price difference.

How about Road&Track's test at Grattan Raceway curiously left out?
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-revi...let-camaro-zl1

Lap Time: ZL1: 1:27.91, GT500: 1:28.53
60-0: ZL1: 114ft, GT500: 115ft
80-0: ZL1: 196ft, GT500: 197ft
Lateral Acceleration: ZL1: 0.98g, GT500: 0.95g
Slolam Speed: ZL1: 71.2mph, GT500: 70.7mph
Observed Fuel Eco: ZL1: 14.6mpg, GT500: 13.1mpg
As Tested Price: ZL1: $57,590, GT500: $65,075

From the article:
"Repeated braking into Turn 1 was a big test for the Brembos on both cars, and only once was there panic from a soft pedal. That pedal belonged to the GT500, which ended its timed lapping session after seven hot laps. The ZL1's brakes never faltered and in conjunction with the MR suspension provided superior confidence in decreasing-radius brake zones. The GT500 kept wanting to swing its tail out, causing a bit of trepidation and decreased speed."

Again, the graphic fails to mention the price disparity between the two cars tested by InsideLine (Edmunds) ZL1: $57,265, GT500: $63,080.

Automobile Mag: ZL1: $58,335, GT500: $63,080

Let's look at some other tracks:

GingerMan
ZL1 1:42.05
GT500 1:45.21

Grattan
ZL1 1:27.95
GT500 1:28.53

Sachsenring
ZL1 1:38.13
GT500 1:38.26

VIR
ZL1 2:52.38
GT500 3:00.60

Nurburgring
ZL1 7:41.27
GT500 0:00.00

Sorry but I don't count this hidden video edited to 32fps by SVTPerformance. If the GT500 was anywhere close to the ZL1 around the Nurburgring, Ford would have been singing it from the hill tops.

The GT500 is an outstanding engine, but for the money, the ZL1 is simply the better car which is how every professional review came to declare the ZL1 the preferred car despite the overwhelming HP advantage of the Ford.

[Normagene]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

The GT500 is an outstanding engine, but for the money, the ZL1 is simply the better car which is how every professional review came to declare the ZL1 the preferred car despite the overwhelming HP advantage of the Ford.

People will argue anything, and they will always believe they're right no matter what the numbers show because statistics can be slanted all kinds of ways. Just like your question on "is that really faster, one lap" of course some will immediately say Yes and the fact is the GT-500 was faster. But I agree that every article I've read so far has picked the ZL1 as the "better" car to own. Definitely the most Bang for the Buck. But when they asked the Pro driver which car he would want for his own car all picked the GT-500. Why because it takes more skill to drive, much harder to keep under control and less predictable.

Obviously this is a No Winner argument because people will believe whatever they want to believe. I love the ZL1 and drive it only on the streets, yet to have it on a track, but one day I hope to! Those same articles said the Mustang was very difficult to control on the streets which is where these cars will be driven almost all of the time. So to each their own.

I remember watching an episode of BBCs Top Gear where Clarkson was in Calf at a drag strip with some six figure Supercar and bet with some Ricer that his Supercar was faster. Well he lost that bet, the Ricer blew him away, so he respectfully congratulated the guy and said well let's drive up to Vegas and have a proper celebration. The Ricer of course wanted to go, but his car may be really good for a few runs down the dragstrip, but that's about it. The point is the same here, the ZL1 is consistently good, all the time, the Mustang when put to a real test quickly fades and crumbles and has to be nursed back home as where the ZL1 just keeps on going and going.


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[hockeylover86]

Originally Posted by Normagene

That all (above) depends on the drivers. I'm sure we've all seen way way more than of our share of idiots behind the wheel of every make and model. I've seen from 16 to 90 years old in these two beasts. Worst idiots are the ones that THINK they can drive, weave in and out of traffic, and have zero respect for others on the road. For sure either one of these cars in the wrong hands only results in death, of the driver and occupants or their foolish driving ability that ends up killing someone else. My gay lover drives his Corvette too fast, but he will tell you the best thing about it is its great for picking up his Boy-Toys!


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Fixed it for you..

[Normagene]

Originally Posted by hockeylover86

Fixed it for you..

Some people are incapable of being honest or decent, you definitely prove that point!


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[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Normagene

Ever think about running for office! Or is that where retired politicians go.


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No if he were a politician he wouldn't have used a very insensitive term let alone shouted it with ALL CAPS.


Well on second thought a lot of politicians are pretty insensitive too.

[Slapshot]

This thread and the thread on svt crack me up. There's so much butt hurtery on both sides of the fence it's hilarious. It's absolutely mind boggling how many people from both sites are incapable of objective thinking.

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[LostPony]

Originally Posted by Slapshot

This thread and the thread on svt crack me up. There's so much butt hurtery on both sides of the fence it's hilarious. It's absolutely mind boggling how many people from both sites are incapable of objective thinking.

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Needs a "Like" button!

[Normagene]

Originally Posted by Slapshot

This thread and the thread on svt crack me up. There's so much butt hurtery on both sides of the fence it's hilarious. It's absolutely mind boggling how many people from both sites are incapable of objective thinking.

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I don't think anybody is trying to be objective, it's seems to be all "tongue in cheek". I'm a jokester at heart, so I too really enjoy the comedy! Although I've come across a few Trolls, never understood the point of just sticking my nose into others business. If I didn't own a Camaro or be considering a purchase, I definitely wouldn't be on this forum. To each their own. For example; I've never been on a Mustang forum, don't have or want one, so what would be the point. I'm not that kinda jerk.

Which is faster, dollar for dollar, well the Mustang is thousands more expensive, put that exact amount of additional money into mods, no can't do that it wouldn't be fair...... Almost impossible to really have an equal comparison since they have such a big difference in price. But the magazines do it all the time. Just finished reading Dec's Motor Trend article on "Best Drivers Car". 3 cars compared, the new Stingray $68,775 about the same as the Mustang, the Porsche 911 Carreras 4S $151,260 and the Ferrari F12 Berlinetta $434,144. Seriously; how can you compare cars soooo far apart in price, but that's what they do. And the craziest part, they picked the Stingray over the Ferrari! I'd just love to be part of the test driving!


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[1QwikZ28]

Originally Posted by Normagene

I don't think anybody is trying to be objective, it's seems to be all "tongue in cheek". I'm a jokester at heart, so I too really enjoy the comedy! Although I've come across a few Trolls, never understood the point of just sticking my nose into others business. If I didn't own a Camaro or be considering a purchase, I definitely wouldn't be on this forum. To each their own. For example; I've never been on a Mustang forum, don't have or want one, so what would be the point. I'm not that kinda jerk.

Which is faster, dollar for dollar, well the Mustang is thousands more expensive, put that exact amount of additional money into mods, no can't do that it wouldn't be fair...... Almost impossible to really have an equal comparison since they have such a big difference in price. But the magazines do it all the time. Just finished reading Dec's Motor Trend article on "Best Drivers Car". 3 cars compared, the new Stingray $68,775 about the same as the Mustang, the Porsche 911 Carreras 4S $151,260 and the Ferrari F12 Berlinetta $434,144. Seriously; how can you compare cars soooo far apart in price, but that's what they do. And the craziest part, they picked the Stingray over the Ferrari! I'd just love to be part of the test driving!


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I don't understand why you keep saying the GT500 is thousands more expensive. GT500 starts at $55,595 (Ford's website) for the base model vs ZL1 $57,350 starting price (GM website).

Base model GT500 gets you 662hp/631tq. That is $55,595/662hp= $83.98/hp
Add the Track pack and Performance pack it will total $62,085. That package will put it on par with the ZL1s handling and will cost you $93.78/hp.

Zl1 is gonna cost you $98.88/hp straight out the door.

It seems to me that you never really took into into consideration dollar/hp. Looks like the Shelby is the better performance value upfront. But once you start adding all the unnecessary options on the Shelby, the price will jump significantly.