MotorTrend Pits the ZL1 vs GT500 on the Street, Dragstrip, and Racetrack

[72MachOne99GT]

If fenderaddict would shut his damn trap then we could go back to logical discussion, like why the GT500 sucks so bad despite having a 100ish rwhp advantage, bigger front brakes, and a lighter weight.

[LeviG]

Originally Posted by heRS

If you are into the dragstrip. Screaming success elsewise. The 1LE is being designed for the strip though so watch out!

...Yeah, last time I checked the 1LE is being designed for circuit racing. The Magnetic ride system is for cornering, not for going in a straight line. So take your 1LE to the strip if you want, but dont cry when it doesn't do any better than a regular SS.

[DrkPhx]

Originally Posted by bpmurr

With slicks the GT500 is going to take a more commanding lead.

It would be great to see both cars run on slicks or DR's and see what the ET difference would be. What is the rev limiter for the GT500? The ZL1 is at 6200 rpms, which is real low and costing it some ET. I know the LSA can pull well past that.

[oortcloud]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

Neither car did more than three laps according to the article. The GT500 ran

1. 1:38.69
2. 1:39.03
3. 1:39.30

Camaro fastest lap was 1:39.18 and the article said it deviated by no more than two tenths of a second. Since that was the fastest lap we can assume the slowest lap for the Camaro was around 1:39.38. Either way, if this were a three lap race the gt500 was faster, if you use average lap times, the gt500 was faster. I agree the gt500 seems to need a pad upgrade and possibly some ducting, but in the confines of this test the gt500 was faster on track overall and in single lap. Does that mean it's better? Absolutely not. Does that mean the gt500 will always be faster on a road course? Of course not. However it does mean it was faster in this test. . . that's not really debatable.


Again, I suggest people read the whole article rather than just the cliffnotes.

This is true. But the reason they did not give the gt500 the road course win was because of brake fade. They didnt average the times. They declared a tie because the gt500 posted the fastest single lap, yet by the 3rd lap the zl1 was posting faster times. It almost becomes a safety issue at this point.

The lack of brake ducts was an engineering decision. It shows they couldn't quite get it all balanced. This was a great review. It pushed both cars hard and we now see some limitations on both sides.

[htron50]

I've said this several times before. I must say it again.

Ford saved weight by cutting corners on five critical areas, and probably more.

1) A braking system that is less than optimal.
2) A suspension system that erodes confidence
3) A straight axle that is .... a "one shot" deal (straightaways)
4) Lightweight construction - resulting in tinny hollow sounds in the roof when you are in a light rain... worse in heavy rain. You have a hard time even hearing the radio. I know, its a "nit", but cutting corners on roof insulation is just another sign your riding enjoyment will fade like it's brakes fade on a slalom.
5) Inferior Warranty (only 60k on the drivetrain)..... kind of tells you something!

Motor trend summed it up pretty good. When you get a ZL1, you certainly get your MORE than your money's worth ..... Oh.. one more thing....
Anyone with a ZL1 won't have to worry about the five points above. And as much as I respect all enthusiasts, it's your money!

[htron50]

Originally Posted by oortcloud

This is true. But the reason they did not give the gt500 the road course win was because of brake fade. They didnt average the times. They declared a tie because the gt500 posted the fastest single lap, yet by the 3rd lap the zl1 was posting faster times. It almost becomes a safety issue at this point.

The lack of brake ducts was an engineering decision. It shows they couldn't quite get it all balanced. This was a great review. It pushed both cars hard and we now see some limitations on both sides.

Good comments!

[LeviG]

Originally Posted by tt335ci03cobra

You are gonna hate me but I gotta give some input on this.

Per the checkmate claim:

In chess, a win is a win. You can't say it's not a win simply because a seemingly foolish set of moves traded a queen and rook early on. Its likely the case they were "fooloshly" traded for pawns to setup a grid and end up pulling the checkmate very quickly (3 faster laps than the zl1's fastest lap) by the winning team.

The gt500 vs the zl1 on Leguna Seca, lost its queen; its ability to handle very smoothly and drive very comfortably/confidently to pawns of the zl1. Gone, lost. It also lost a rook; it's braking is taxed by higher camber vs the zl1 as well as narrower contact patches. Brakes heat up too quick for the chassis. Comfort/confidence and braking are crucial players, game changers even. The gt500 traded those for pawns to setup the rest of its team though. The pawns it took from the 2012 zl1 were a lack of nav, glass roof, subwoofer options, and poorer visibility. Definitely not game changers.

That said, the gt500 pulled a win very quickly because it traded those elements to be able to set up a six puck attack. Bishops at perfect pressure points hiding down low after taking the pawns that took its queen and rook from g1 and f3 (lower weight, taller gearing) and a knight (steering feel and accuracy; just at L to the zl1's shift smoothness). Then it threw two pawns up (200mph aero and downforce helps but isn't a game changer on a 135mph track; a solid axel, for all it's faults, does like putting power down sooner than an IRS at times) one at b5 and the other at c4 to put pressur on a4 and a6 safely. The zl1's king is on a7, stay with me.

Now the gt500 simply throws it last knight, (662hp), squarely onto c8. Sorry but with all the other pieces in place, it is a win. A quick, flimsy one, arguably not very repeatable, but hey it's a win.

This has got to be the dumbest argument and comprison I've read on this entire site. Bravo Mr. Cobra, bravo.

[Fenderaddict2]

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

If fenderaddict would shut his damn trap then we could go back to logical discussion, like why the GT500 sucks so bad despite having a 100ish rwhp advantage, bigger front brakes, and a lighter weight.

I'll shhhh, if you read all my posts for the answer. Short one, stick axle, ride height, higher speeds, aero optimized for top speed (less drag).

[tt335ci03cobra]

Originally Posted by LeviG

This has got to be the dumbest argument and comprison I've read on this entire site. Bravo Mr. Cobra, bravo.

Haha, no. Just stop, you look silly. You take the cake. No counter argument and an eccentric claim. That post falls on its face to anybody who understands chess or strategy and read my post.

I can draft the same argument with military strategy, football play calls, business strategy, parasitic marketing, and so on. Feel free to use any of those
genre's to disprove my argument. I used chess because the guy I quoted made a few chess reference and huge claims that had no value to chess.

Hell, use checkers, business plans etc. Use sandwich building or wall painting or any genre you wanna use to disprove the concepts I talked about chess because its not that big a deal that you probably don't know how chess plays.

Until you have a counter argument for deception mapping and hard compromise playcalling, it's sheepish and weak to bash a solid argument without breaking it down. kids do this, have some self respect and point out why.

[Bad@ssCamaro]

Originally Posted by LeviG

...Yeah, last time I checked the 1LE is being designed for circuit racing. The Magnetic ride system is for cornering, not for going in a straight line. So take your 1LE to the strip if you want, but dont cry when it doesn't do any better than a regular SS.

The 1LE option for the SS does not come with the MRC system.

Other changes to optimize the 1LE for track-day use include:

Larger, 27-mm solid front stabilizer bar, and 28-mm solid rear stabilizer bar for improved body control
Higher-capacity rear-axle half shafts to cope with increased levels of traction
Strut tower brace for improved steering feel and response
ZL1-based 20 x 10-inch front and 20 x 11-inch aluminum wheels
285/35ZR20 Goodyear Eagle Supercar G:2 tires front and rear (identical to the front tires for ZL1)
ZL1 wheel bearings, toe links and rear shock mounts for improved on-track performance
ZL1 high-capacity fuel pump and additional fuel pickups for improved fuel delivery during high-cornering

[brucedd]

Originally Posted by tt335ci03cobra

Haha, no. Just stop, you look silly. You take the cake. No counter argument and an eccentric claim. That post falls on its face to anybody who understands chess or strategy and read my post.

I can draft the same argument with military strategy, football play calls, business strategy, parasitic marketing, and so on. Feel free to use any of those
genre's to disprove my argument. I used chess because the guy I quoted made a few chess reference and huge claims that had no value to chess.

Hell, use checkers, business plans etc. Use sandwich building or wall painting or any genre you wanna use to disprove the concepts I talked about chess because its not that big a deal that you probably don't know how chess plays.

Until you have a counter argument for deception mapping and hard compromise playcalling, it's sheepish and weak to bash a solid argument without breaking it down. kids do this, have some self respect and point out why.

How about we use CARS? Oh wait, Motor Trend already did that!

[tt335ci03cobra]

Originally Posted by brucedd

How about we use CARS? Oh wait, Motor Trend already did that!

And the gt500 won about every metric in that comparison from lap times to et's, etc. Thats similar to the mission of a chess game. Take the win. Most of those publications score things as two columns, stats and subjective. It won the battle that al o and ford techs deemed the biggest metric; who is faster on a track. The Gt500 has now won a few, even one is enough to debunk al o and his claims. Game over, challenge bested, sorry but that's a checkmate.

Performance was questioned, and specifically the gt500's was discredited by al o and many others. Ford guys said wait for it and you'll be surprised. We were talking about the lap times, and specifically today in that post you quoted about them on Leguna buddy. My post started off with "on Leguna, the gt500 beat the zl1..." or something like that.

Motortrend tested the cars and the gt500 won the metrics. you bring up their test just as I did. Pretty bad when your argument falls apart on its own stilts because you jumped into a concern without reading to keep up with the context.

Board. Next? Not worth it, to all contenders just slap yourselves now for arguing a relatively undebatable reality with published proof.

[DanSS24]

Originally Posted by rez333

Did anyone notice that the ZL1's wheels are only "cast aluminum" according to Motortrend? That's.. ghetto..

According to Chevrolet website, it's forged aluminum. So...not ghetto.

[Bad@ssCamaro]

Originally Posted by tt335ci03cobra

And the gt500 won about every metric in that comparison from lap times to et's, etc. Thats similar to the mission of a chess game. Take the win. Most of those publications score things as two columns, stats and subjective. It won the battle that al o and ford techs deemed the biggest metric; who is faster on a track. The Gt500 has now won a few, even one is enough to debunk al o and his claims. Game over, challenge bested, sorry but that's a checkmate.

Performance was questioned, and specifically the gt500's was discredited by al o and many others. Ford guys said wait for it and you'll be surprised. We were talking about the lap times, and specifically today in that post you quoted about them on Leguna buddy. My post started off with "on Leguna, the gt500 beat the zl1..." or something like that.

Motortrend tested the cars and the gt500 won the metrics. you bring up their test just as I did. Pretty bad when your argument falls apart on its own stilts because you jumped into a concern without reading to keep up with the context.

Board. Next? Not worth it, to all contenders just slap yourselves now for arguing a relatively undebatable reality with published proof.

Ok, I'm not as intelligent and experienced in driving fast cars as you are, but isn't the majority of the people on this forum not disagreeing with the formidability of the GT500. Those that are might be brand loyal(as I am) and as any other would, be defending their stance? My take is that the mag reviewers know that the GT500 is a monster, but there is that other "metric" that seems to be predominant and that is every day drivability, and for the mature experienced driver, comfort does play a large role. For the young and brash (those that think of themselves as real men - until they get older) maybe not so much.