Z28 or ZL1???

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by fastball

Every time I see that acronym I want to smack the political hacks who enacted this crap.

Seriously Scott, what COULD the govt. do to GM if GM simply built and sold as many V8 cars as the market dictated at a reasonable price?

Check out what International Truck is going through now.

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by ezleeinfamous

The 2014 ZL1 will have the same ZL1 performance specs. Not sure if that was already mentioned. Only comfort upgrades and options, still 580hp.

...the elephant in the room is that the front end will remain the same, but the rear will have the 2014 Camaro styling, SS or Z/28, not announced yet.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by G-Oil Guy

I believe if they didn't offset the v8s they world get fined or something along those lines. And keep in mind CAFE was passed in 1975 because of the OPEC oil crisis.

Right, but the insipid increase from roughly 25 to 50 MPG in the next few short years is absolutely unreasonable, and it is THAT part of it that really pisses me off. And it is THAT part of it that was enacted by our current circus act of clowns, goats, and sheep.

Bob Lutz's view on this is spot on: jacking up the CAFE and forcing people to buy economical cars is like forcing people to lose weight by making it illegal to make pants larger than 30 inches.

America is supposed to be about free market and letting the market decide if people want something or not. Trust me, if the Z/28 came in under $50k and it was built EXACTLY the way it is intended right now, there would be lines out the door to order them.

Some people will tell you they don't want muscle cars because they're too expensive. And that's why they don't sell.

I would argue there is still a SUBSTANTIAL market for them, if they are priced right.

[BrazenBeast]

Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro

...the elephant in the room is that the front end will remain the same, but the rear will have the 2014 Camaro styling, SS or Z/28, not announced yet.

I think the bigger elephant is the future of the ZL1 after 2014. It gets worse mileage than the Z28 and may also fall vicim to CAFE, in the current horsepower level anyway.

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by BrazenBeast

I think the bigger elephant is the future of the ZL1 after 2014. It gets worse mileage than the Z28 and may also fall vicim to CAFE, in the current horsepower level anyway.

...that's a possibilty I agree. I advocated to drop that model and concentrate the resources for a base, SS, and Z/28 line. The new DI motors will have a supercharger induction. But at what cost. Eventually because of GOV and EPA, things will become scarcer and more expensive for HP models, potentially pushing them out of range cost wise for the median market to purchase them as we have now, or alter them in a fashion that us old people are not willing to accept. Newer generations are more adapted to fix up 4's or 6's, like the tuner crowd. I'll die before I switch.

[RedWingsZL1]

I'm 27 and I don't agree with these CAFE standards. Let car makers choose what to produce. The Toyota Camry already out produces most manufactures BY ITSELF. So clearly there's a market for that.

However, there's always going to be a market for high HP V8 muscle cars. Just because some nit-wit is trying to leave his impact on the world doesn't mean he should get to kill an entire genre of cars.

[Richy_Rich]

how about a ZL1 with something like a Z/28 wheel?

[tmandoug1]

Originally Posted by Richy_Rich

how about a ZL1 with something like a Z/28 wheel?

Gimme a set in black.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Seraph98

My first car was a 1987 Z28. This was my favorite car till I got my ZL1. As much as I want the Z28, I want it to also be able to be a daily driver like the ZL1. I feel GM missed the mark on the Z28 but that is ok because they nailed it on the ZL1.

I took my name off the list at my dealership for the Z28 even though I really want to park it next the ZL1. It just is not the car I feel they should have made.

On a side note have the ZL1 out from storage for the winter for the 1st time this morning and I could not be happier and more excited to drive it. BEST CAR I HAVE EVER OWNED!!!

What would you make it a ZL1? It is exactly what it the Z/28 should be...you just don't want what it "is".

[fbodfather]

Originally Posted by fastball

Every time I see that acronym I want to smack the political hacks who enacted this crap.

Seriously Scott, what COULD the govt. do to GM if GM simply built and sold as many V8 cars as the market dictated at a reasonable price?

You tell me.

We live in a country where so many love to hate GM/Ford/Chrysler.

The fact is that we'd be in violation of the law........need I say anything more?

[fbodfather]

Originally Posted by fastball

Right, but the insipid increase from roughly 25 to 50 MPG in the next few short years is absolutely unreasonable, and it is THAT part of it that really pisses me off. And it is THAT part of it that was enacted by our current circus act of clowns, goats, and sheep.

Bob Lutz's view on this is spot on: jacking up the CAFE and forcing people to buy economical cars is like forcing people to lose weight by making it illegal to make pants larger than 30 inches.

America is supposed to be about free market and letting the market decide if people want something or not. Trust me, if the Z/28 came in under $50k and it was built EXACTLY the way it is intended right now, there would be lines out the door to order them.

Some people will tell you they don't want muscle cars because they're too expensive. And that's why they don't sell.

I would argue there is still a SUBSTANTIAL market for them, if they are priced right.

I must tell you that I don't believe most people want to buy the Z/28 as developed. It is a tribute to the original Z/28 - not the Z28 that hit the market later.......you'll get to see my point in the next day or so when I post my thoughts.

The Z/28 is NOT for the 'faint of heart' -- it's not meant to be a daily driver -- and one long read of the Build of Materials will prove that.

The 'daily driver' is the ZL1 or the SS - the Z/28 is purpose built.

[HDRDTD]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

I must tell you that I don't believe most people want to buy the Z/28 as developed. It is a tribute to the original Z/28 - not the Z28 that hit the market later.......you'll get to see my point in the next day or so when I post my thoughts.

The Z/28 is NOT for the 'faint of heart' -- it's not meant to be a daily driver -- and one long read of the Build of Materials will prove that.

The 'daily driver' is the ZL1 or the SS - the Z/28 is purpose built.

I look at it this way.

The COPO is purpose built for straight lines.
The new Z28 is purpose built for curves
Neither of which make a comfortable street car.

The ZL1 is the perfect blend of both
And makes a totaly awesome DD.
(especially if it happens to be a convertible)

Thank you Scott and GM for all three.

[fbodfather]

Originally Posted by HDRDTD

I look at it this way.

The COPO is purpose built for straight lines.
The new Z28 is purpose built for curves
Neither of which make a comfortable street car.

The ZL1 is the perfect blend of both
And makes a totaly awesome DD.
(especially if it happens to be a convertible)

Thank you Scott and GM for all three.

DEAR SWEET LORD!!!!

A few finally understand!

Thank you, HDRDTD!!!

[Al C.]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

DEAR SWEET LORD!!!!

A few finally understand!

Thank you, HDRDTD!!!

One question, why make the 14' Z/28 street legal? I'm not questioning why GM did or didn't do, I'm very happy with the ZL1, but thought I'd ask..