08-11-2015, 09:58 AM | #197 |
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Going off of what Taco said, I think that is where Ford learned from GM. They went balls to the wall with the Z/28 and good for them. They built one hell of a machine. Ford with their track star, is going to offer a less hardcore version the 350. And even in the hardcore R model, you can still get the tech goodies if you want them. I think GM should take note of that for the next go around with a 6th Gen Z/28.
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08-11-2015, 10:30 AM | #198 | ||
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08-11-2015, 10:05 PM | #199 | ||
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Aside from that, in SCCA racing, the real truth is, the Camaro(5th gen) has had it's posterior handed to it for years on end. I'm NOT a road racing fan myself. I mean, I like to watch and all, but I'll never waste my money actually doing it again. If I do, I'll get a Miata and do it on the cheap. By the way, by the 3rd lap, the Mustang posted a slower ET... it was still faster overall for the 1st through 3rd laps, from the looks. More importantly perhaps... ONLY the brakes can be pointed to as to the hy GT500 lost, when it lost. If that's your ONLY problem... a quick change by any owner will alleviate the problem. That's a win all by itself. Now, I'm not buying a GT500 because of it, but then, the facts remain. Th new GT350R, by contrast, will ANNIHILATE the GT500 on basically any course where long straights can't create a win. I won't be shocked or offended to learn the same GT350R does the same to the Z/28 and so on... it will, guaranteed. For the next Z/28, or ZL1... that may very well change. The 2015 Z/28 though, and any other GM production Camaro, stands little chance here. That's life and there's no need to be upset over it(not to you, but generally). |
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08-12-2015, 08:00 AM | #200 | ||
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Not wanting to go back in time to the GT500 vs ZL1 debate, I believe I recall there was more than just Laguna where the GT500 posted a better lap. I also believe that it is stated in the owners manual of the GT500 that if you are doing high performance driving it was recommended to change the brake fluid, which would eliminate the brake fade...BUT Ford probably should have just put better fluid in it from the get go. Last edited by shaffe; 08-12-2015 at 08:36 AM. |
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08-12-2015, 10:40 AM | #201 | ||||||||
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Road&Track at Grattan Raceway ZL1: 1:27.91 GT500: 1:28.53 Car&Driver at VIR ZL1 2:57.50 GT500 3:00.60 The long list of lap times is from FastLaps and not a same-day, same-driver comparison. I only post it to show the effect of longer, more complex tracks where the GT500 falls farther behind as length increases. If you have other lap times where the GT500 is faster than the ZL1 please share them with us. But don't criticize me for "forgetting" and then not identify what I allegedly omitted. Quote:
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"So, yes, the Mustang turned a faster lap, but if it's not repeatable, is it really a win? Find a 2.23-mile autocross and you might have something, but in any road race, the Mustang is going to quickly fall behind." Quote:
"By the end of the first lap, the brakes had already begun to heat up so badly, we could smell them from the pits as the car passed by on the front straight." Hmmmmm so all Ford needed to do on their halo car - the most powerful production Mustang ever - was "a quick brake change" and it would have alleviated its road course woes and let it turn faster laps than a ZL1 with consistency? And they didn't do this why? Quote:
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That doesn't sound like a fluid problem. The ZL1 seemed just fine with factory fill brake fluid.
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2012 - Present: 2011 CTS-V Sedan, A6, Airaid, Zmax TB and Tune by R.P.M. = 535 hp/503 lb-ft.
2009 - 2012: 2010 2SS RS IBM M6, MGW Shifter, BMR Trailing Arms/Tunnel Brace, Roto-Fab CAI, VMAX Ported TB, Kooks 6511-Complete (Headers, X-Pipe, Mufflers), dyno tuned by R.P.M. = 415 hp/412 lb-ft. "Not giving a f*^k is truly the greatest luxury, and no luxury car gives fewer f*^k's than a CTS-V." - Matt Hardigree |
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08-12-2015, 01:31 PM | #202 | |
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Car & Driver around Grattan both cars had the same lap time 1:30.2 MT Gt500 was quicker around Laguna Seca - for 2 laps then faded. Inside Line GT500 was quicker than ZL1 around Streets of Willow Automobile Mag had the ZL1 quicker around Gingerman. those were same day same driver tests I believe. So out of those 4. 2 Edge to GT500, 1 to ZL1 1 to tie. But all mags picked the ZL1 bc it was easier to push harder, more liveable and they felt more well rounded. The brake thing I could have sworn I read it some where. Can't seem to find it so will have to chalk that up to bad memory on my part and bad brakes on the GT500. and good to have you back....it was getting boring on here with no debating |
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08-12-2015, 08:53 PM | #203 | |||
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Dear Shaffe,
Thank you for contributing to a productive discussion. If only all the Ford leg-humpers were as level-headed as you Quote:
I found forum comments about it although I can't find the original article. Is this what you were referring to? Do you have the source? Edmunds at Streets of Willow (1.6 miles) ZL1: 1:25.57 GT500: 1:24.92 Quote:
ZL1: 1:44.53 GT500: 1:45.21 http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews..._shelby_gt500/ Quote:
Edmunds at Streets of Willow (1.6 miles) ZL1: 1:25.57 GT500: 1:24.92 Car&Driver at Grattan Raceway (2.0 miles) ZL1: 1:30.2 GT500: 1:30.2 Road&Track at Grattan Raceway (2.0 miles) ZL1: 1:27.91 GT500: 1:28.53 Automobile Magazine - Gingerman Raceway (2.14 miles) ZL1: 1:44.53 GT500: 1:45.21 MotorTrend at Laguna Seca (2.2 miles) ZL1: 1:39.18 GT500: 1:38.69* Car&Driver at VIR (4.2 miles) ZL1 2:57.50 GT500 3:00.60 GT500 wins 1 outright, 1 for the first two laps then fails. The cars tie in the hands of C&D ZL1 wins 3 outright. The GT500 has far more power and less weight giving it a significant advantage on short tracks with long straights. The VIR time is really the most telling to me (my home track) as it quickly highlights weaknesses in a car. Ultimately, this is a silly comparison as the overall opinion of reviewers (and most enthusiasts) significantly favored the ZL1 as the car at home on the track. It's been a busy summer! Looking forward to seeing some GT350 test results. Everything about the car and price look right so far.
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2012 - Present: 2011 CTS-V Sedan, A6, Airaid, Zmax TB and Tune by R.P.M. = 535 hp/503 lb-ft.
2009 - 2012: 2010 2SS RS IBM M6, MGW Shifter, BMR Trailing Arms/Tunnel Brace, Roto-Fab CAI, VMAX Ported TB, Kooks 6511-Complete (Headers, X-Pipe, Mufflers), dyno tuned by R.P.M. = 415 hp/412 lb-ft. "Not giving a f*^k is truly the greatest luxury, and no luxury car gives fewer f*^k's than a CTS-V." - Matt Hardigree |
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08-13-2015, 09:15 AM | #204 | |
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Every review picked the ZL1- even if in terms of just raw performance numbers the GT500 dominated it in the stat box - but as the reviews all showed that is not all that matters. I am excited to see the reviews of the GT350 as well. Especially once Randy takes it around Laguna. That is what I am most looking forward too. |
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08-13-2015, 09:29 AM | #205 |
Why is there so much discussion of the ZL1 vs GT500 in a GT350R vs Z/28 thread?
I think the GT350R will be quicker than the Z/28. Nothing wrong with that, it is a model year newer. GT350R has the weight advantage (in the right spots) and power advantage while most likely equalling the cornering and braking ability of the z/28. Should be a fun read no matter what. |
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08-13-2015, 10:02 AM | #206 |
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I believe it derailed around someone being confident about the GT350, then someone mentioned the GT500 brake fade issue and despite having more power than Zl1 only posted 1 better lap time, I corrected that with other better lap times.
Back on to GT350 lap times lol |
08-13-2015, 12:07 PM | #207 | |
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08-13-2015, 12:16 PM | #208 | |
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The GT350 will be awesome..at least until the 6th Gen Z28.
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08-13-2015, 02:10 PM | #209 | ||
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ONE other better lap time. The ZL1 still wins 3-2-1 which is remarkable for a heavier, lower-powered, less expensive car. More importantly we saw in the various articles the limitations of the GT500 on the track. Hopefully, 3 years later, Ford has finally given us a worthy ZL1, Z/28 competitor.
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2012 - Present: 2011 CTS-V Sedan, A6, Airaid, Zmax TB and Tune by R.P.M. = 535 hp/503 lb-ft.
2009 - 2012: 2010 2SS RS IBM M6, MGW Shifter, BMR Trailing Arms/Tunnel Brace, Roto-Fab CAI, VMAX Ported TB, Kooks 6511-Complete (Headers, X-Pipe, Mufflers), dyno tuned by R.P.M. = 415 hp/412 lb-ft. "Not giving a f*^k is truly the greatest luxury, and no luxury car gives fewer f*^k's than a CTS-V." - Matt Hardigree |
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08-14-2015, 08:00 AM | #210 |
Drives: 21 Bronco Join Date: Jun 2012
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And hopefully we shall see in the coming weeks!
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