Z28 Higher than SS?

[wildpaws]

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT

You bet. And, to answer the million dollar question...."of all time"...it'd be the ZL1.

Pretty good answer on the ZL1, but again relies mostly on brute horsepower. Much of the first gen. debate about "top dog" revolves around what criteria you use for selecting the top dog. If you choose horsepower and quarter mile times as your definitive criteria, then you have to go with the SS as it had more HP in even the smallest SS package (350cid/295hp) at intro than the Z/28 (302cid/290hp and was not available at '67 model intro) and the other SS engines added a few months after intro (396 and 427 cid) were even more so. If you use purpose built production version of a race car as your definitive criteria, then the Z/28 has to be your choice for top dog in the first gen. Would the larger engine versions of the SS run away from a Z/28 in a straight line? You bet the 350/375hp versions of the 396 would as well as the 427cid versions. Throw some curves in along with the straightaways and the SS versions saw nothing but Z/28 tail lights. So it all depends on your viewpoint/opinion as to how you want your Camaro to perform.
Clyde

[radz28]

It seems to me that Chevy just simply split the Camaro line back then. If you wanted a top-dog handler - Z28; if you wanted race down Woodard - SS. A Z28 could still run respectable times in the 1320 but a COPO SS would run circles around it on the 1320; I wouldn't try running circles around a Z28 with an SS around a road course though That's changed since then though...

IMHO, although I'm a Z-fan, I think the SS has been moved into the top-of-the-line position. GM didn't make as many of them as Zs; SSs, like has been said alread, had suspension improvements (although 1LE Camaros would likely have been a little better,) intake and exhaust improvements, and small powertrain improvements; and was finally more expensive than Z28s. They really made close to the same power if the intake and exhaust upgrades by SLP weren't added to the SS.

I'm not sure what GM will do with the new Camaro. I'm sure they're going to follow the same format as fourth Gens. in that SS will be the top-dog. If they are going to use Cobra as the target, I think that's logical. SS, IMHO, has always been on top as far as power so that makes sense to me. I definately don't think GM is going to make Camaro as diverse as it was in the frist Gen. models, but I think it will run close to the fourth Gens. with maybe an additional engine upgrade... that's what I hope anyways

[Emu the Foo]

IROC-Z FTW!!!


jk

[Stingr69]

Lots of opinions but just as many misconceptions.

The first gen Camaro had several purpose built combinations.

The RS was always an appearance package. The SS was always a sport package unrestrained by any racing class rules (the Street Performance choice). The Z/28 had only one purpose - it was designed, built and sold to homolgate the Camaro race car into the SCCA Stock Road Race class where the Boss 302 Mustang competed in AND beat the crap out of them. Win that race on Sunday and sell Camaros on Monday. Z/28's were supposed to be sold as a "production vehicle" to anyone who walked into a Chevy dealer and layed down the cash. It was not supposed to be the top dog Camaro, it was supposed to be the Top Dog SCCA Production Car in the 5.0 liter SCCA Production Car racing class. It had no street domination intent. The SS and above were designed for street domination where engine size was not limited by any rules restrictions.

This changed somewhat with the second generation Camaro. The SCCA rules were changed to allow anyone to de-stroke a production engine to race in a different displacement class and still be considered a "production" car. Racers could purchase a stock 350 engine equipped Camaro and race in SCCA 5.0 liter classes by installing a short stroke crank to get under the 5.0 Liter max engine size limit. GM no longer "needed" to build factory 302 Camaros to homolgate them as production vehicles so they discontinued the 302 engines for '70 and sold showroom Z/28's with LT-1 350 engines.

The SS could get a you a 350 or a 396 if your wallet held out. You could go as fast as you could afford with the SS, COPO and Zl-1's. Those could be considered "Top Dogs" for the street.

GM made a Z/28 after 1969 but they were never as close to being a pure, purpose built race car after that.

The SCCA competition died out but the legend lives on!!

-Mark.

[The Great KJ]

My opinion on the SS and Z/28 debate isn't about which car is better, faster, nicer etc. The fact is the Z/28 represents the Camaro. The SS represents everything from a Impala to a Nova to a Silverado pickup. Is there an SS Corvette?
Bring us the Z/28 GM

Thanks

[td2222]

In my world

1)Top SS
2)Z28
3)RS
4)Camaro

Chevelle SS, El Camino SS, Nova SS, Impala SS, HHR SS, Even Cobalt SS
Super Sport- Leader of the pack

[PYROLYSIS]

I wouldn't mind seeing the Z28 being the top model with a race inspired 302. That's how it was originally intended. They could put enough technology into it to make a smaller engine faster than the 378.

[SdustinK]

i rather have a ss as the best cause then if a z28 comes out my ss wont be the best camaro

[Mindz]

Wow. Necro much? I thought this discussion was dead and gone.

Unfortunately what people want doesn't matter at the moment. The trims are set, and I'm sure if a Z/28 is in the works, then it will come out if possible. With CAFE being what it is and with the economy in the toilet, we just have to wait and see what's going on with the models.

[CamaroSpike23]

[greenrail]

Originally Posted by Stingr69

Lots of opinions but just as many misconceptions.

The first gen Camaro had several purpose built combinations.

The RS was always an appearance package. The SS was always a sport package unrestrained by any racing class rules (the Street Performance choice). The Z/28 had only one purpose - it was designed, built and sold to homolgate the Camaro race car into the SCCA Stock Road Race class where the Boss 302 Mustang competed in AND beat the crap out of them. Win that race on Sunday and sell Camaros on Monday. Z/28's were supposed to be sold as a "production vehicle" to anyone who walked into a Chevy dealer and layed down the cash. It was not supposed to be the top dog Camaro, it was supposed to be the Top Dog SCCA Production Car in the 5.0 liter SCCA Production Car racing class. It had no street domination intent. The SS and above were designed for street domination where engine size was not limited by any rules restrictions.

This changed somewhat with the second generation Camaro. The SCCA rules were changed to allow anyone to de-stroke a production engine to race in a different displacement class and still be considered a "production" car. Racers could purchase a stock 350 engine equipped Camaro and race in SCCA 5.0 liter classes by installing a short stroke crank to get under the 5.0 Liter max engine size limit. GM no longer "needed" to build factory 302 Camaros to homolgate them as production vehicles so they discontinued the 302 engines for '70 and sold showroom Z/28's with LT-1 350 engines.

The SS could get a you a 350 or a 396 if your wallet held out. You could go as fast as you could afford with the SS, COPO and Zl-1's. Those could be considered "Top Dogs" for the street.

GM made a Z/28 after 1969 but they were never as close to being a pure, purpose built race car after that.

The SCCA competition died out but the legend lives on!!

-Mark.

Uh, check your History. The Boss 302 Mustang didn't come out until 1969 model year. The Z/28 came out in late 1967. There was no such thing as a Boss 302 when the Z came out.

[wildpaws]

Originally Posted by greenrail

Uh, check your History. The Boss 302 Mustang didn't come out until 1969 model year. The Z/28 came out in late 1967. There was no such thing as a Boss 302 when the Z came out.

Exactly, when the Z/28 came out in '67 the Mustangs were still running 289cid engines in TransAm.
Clyde

[Stingr69]

You guys may be right, I have taken liberties with the name "Boss" - My Bad.

As for the 289 part - I believe they were racing overbored engines. The limit was 5.0 Liter and they bored them oversize to get to the max displacement (around 305 cubic inches). I have seen the Chevy pistons for that so I am assuming the Mustangs were doing this as well.

-Mark.

[wildpaws]

Originally Posted by Stingr69

You guys may be right, I have taken liberties with the name "Boss" - My Bad.

As for the 289 part - I believe they were racing overbored engines. The limit was 5.0 Liter and they bored them oversize to get to the max displacement (around 305 cubic inches). I have seen the Chevy pistons for that so I am assuming the Mustangs were doing this as well.

-Mark.

Go back and read your TransAm history, '66/'67 the Mustangs were indeed running 289cid engines. There was no "around", 305cid was the maximum allowed under TransAm rules, indeed Chevy could have bored out 283 blocks to achieve that just as Ford could do so with the 289. What Chevy did was put a 283 crank in a 327 block which works out to 302cid, call it a bored out 283 or a destroked 327, it was a 302. Ford followed suit and developed a 302 engine for the Mustang.
Clyde