Electric Vehicles

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by 90503

Curious about one issue...

Or are they just as easy to steal as any other car?

Well, they depreciate so quickly and have little value chopped as parts compared to ICE, since the recycling capability promise is still unrealized. Are EV chop-shops a thing? Is there a black market for stolen EVs in latin america and west africa? I guess they do have a fair amount of copper in them, for the meth head committed to disassembling one. But, you didn't ask about a lack of demand...



They are heavily software dependent and over time I think they will require reachbacks to a mothership, especially if they start tracking your mileage/movements (strictly for usage tax purposes, of course) to even function, making theft harder.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Capricio

I would argue that policy is trying to force growth in europe and north america, with an obsession over tailpipe emissions on consumer vehicles, at the expense of every other environmental impact. Consumer demand will eventually follow because of a lack of ICE alternatives. I know you keep saying the OEMs willingly dove into this headfirst. Whatever, without policy in place, they never would have rushed into this. We don't need to rehash this, just agree to disagree.

The core of our difference is whether policy INITIATES growth or if policy SUPPORTS growth. It’s almost chicken and egg so we will likely just need to agree to disagree. If there is a “policy” that drives the growth in EU and NA, it’s Paris Accord and the fact that all the automakers are in support of the Paris Accord. The Paris Accord recommends actions that are not enforceable. So the fact that automakers are voluntarily aligned to support carbon emissions reduction, have set aggressive targets to achieve carbon neutrality, and have spent billions of dollars towards that outlines for me an automaker-driven shift to electrification.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Mr_Draco

I think this article covers your questions rather nicely.

https://www.topspeed.com/electric-ve...heives-report/

Originally Posted by 90503

Good article, thanks. Sort of surprised we don't hear more about this being an EV "advantage", or a reason to pay smaller insurance premiums, but then again we are told all the "tech" is in both ICE and EV.

The locking charge port is really the only tech involved here that can’t be duplicated in an ICE. That would explain why EVs don’t get stolen while plugged in. But EVs often park in situations where they are NOT plugged in and are not stolen. The technologies that prevent that are equally applicable to ICE vehicles. But since EVs tend to be more recent releases, they are more likely to have those capabilities. For ICE vehicles they would have to be added by the automaker as part of a product update.

[silversleeper]

One thing that is skipped over in advertising and youtube and other comments is how fast they can charge with navigate to supercharger auto preheat battery.
IIRC I regularly see 900+ miles per hour of charge when lower like 20% and start charging. Why that matters is if on a longer trip you can just put in say 15min of charge= 919/4=229miles. That is quite enough to go down the road or get home on a long trip. The advertised numbers tend to be from 0% to 100% which is not realistic that people don't drive to empty and charging slows and not best for battery in the LongRange batteries to go to 100 unless driving them down soon. Leaving those 90+ in the heat sitting degrades them and can work around that including setting a charge schedule on the smartphone to charge it before leaving for such a trip.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by silversleeper

One thing that is skipped over in advertising and youtube and other comments is how fast they can charge with navigate to supercharger auto preheat battery.
IIRC I regularly see 900+ miles per hour of charge when lower like 20% and start charging. Why that matters is if on a longer trip you can just put in say 15min of charge= 919/4=229miles. That is quite enough to go down the road or get home on a long trip. The advertised numbers tend to be from 0% to 100% which is not realistic that people don't drive to empty and charging slows and not best for battery in the LongRange batteries to go to 100 unless driving them down soon. Leaving those 90+ in the heat sitting degrades them and can work around that including setting a charge schedule on the smartphone to charge it before leaving for such a trip.

Check again. Every EV site and advertisement that I see talks about time to charge 10-80% or 20 - 80% or discusses charging as miles added per hour and they cherry-pick the fastest part of the charging cycle, typically 20 - 80%. I don’t see anybody advertising 0 - 100% charge times.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Check again. Every EV site and advertisement that I see talks about time to charge 10-80% or 20 - 80% or discusses charging as miles added per hour and they cherry-pick the fastest part of the charging cycle, typically 20 - 80%. I don’t see anybody advertising 0 - 100% charge times.

Meh. False advertising. Spin doctors at their best.

Show the public true 0-100 charge times.

Someone should make that a legal requirement in advertising.

[silversleeper]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Check again. Every EV site and advertisement that I see talks about time to charge 10-80% or 20 - 80% or discusses charging as miles added per hour and they cherry-pick the fastest part of the charging cycle, typically 20 - 80%. I don’t see anybody advertising 0 - 100% charge times.

yeah, I somewhat mis spoke. Specs show the 0-100 but all the negative comments and youtubers are all over the slow charging vehicles and slow charging sites and the 0-100 numbers. I shouldn't have said ads but specs.

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by olrocker

Meh. False advertising. Spin doctors at their best.

Show the public true 0-100 charge times.

Someone should make that a legal requirement in advertising.

You know how many times I do 0-100% runs in my 3 years of ownership?

0

Even road tripping, you wouldn't do 0-100% runs.

Advertising 0-100% times in itself is misleading as well.

10 or 20% to 80% is advertised because that is often what is done and recommended when road tripping. Keep the battery in the range it can take the fastest charge and keep on moving.

What is advertised is what one would be doing when taking the car on a road trip. It maximizes the charge of the battery and reduce time on the trip.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

You know how many times I do 0-100% runs in my 3 years of ownership?

0

Even road tripping, you wouldn't do 0-100% runs.

Advertising 0-100% times in itself is misleading as well.

10 or 20% to 80% is advertised because that is often what is done and recommended when road tripping. Keep the battery in the range it can take the fastest charge and keep on moving.

What is advertised is what one would be doing when taking the car on a road trip. It maximizes the charge of the battery and reduce time on the trip.

Yeah I’ve heard that story before, a hundred times.

It still doesn’t help the average American who is not an engineer or into cars at all. In their mind it’s just like gas. Fuel (charge gauge) low? Time to fill her up. “Fill her” means when the charge gauge reads full, 100%.

End of their thought.

I know people who shake the car to get an extra few ounces of gas in it. Probably not good for the evap or recovery system but they’ve been doing it furever because their parents did it.

You gonna convince THEM only run the car between 20-80%?

Not gonna happen.

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by olrocker

You gonna convince THEM only run the car between 20-80%?

Yeah, I find it analogous to running an ICE into it's redline RPM zone. You can do it, but, don't do it for very long, or very often as it reduces your longevity. May as well just concede that the "effective range" is really only 60% (between 20 and 80) of the total rated range.

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by Capricio

Yeah, I find it analogous to running an ICE into it's redline RPM zone. You can do it, but, don't do it for very long, or very often as it reduces your longevity. May as well just concede that the "effective range" is really only 60% (between 20 and 80) of the total rated range.

Debate here though isn't range, but charge time now.

It's amazing how humans have changed their behaviors and adapted to new technologies over time if they can't adjust habits from ICE to EV.

If a person can change how they used their flip phone to an iPhone, they can change how to operate an EV from their ICE vehicle.

The FUD of humans are too stupid to change is getting tired.

The argument in the 1900's would be, who is going to learn how to fuel up the gas car at a station when all people know is feed their horse when leaving home and go?

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

Debate here though isn't range, but charge time now.

It's amazing how humans have changed their behaviors and adapted to new technologies over time if they can't adjust habits from ICE to EV.

If a person can change how they used their flip phone to an iPhone, they can change how to operate an EV from their ICE vehicle.

The FUD of humans are too stupid to change is getting tired.

The argument in the 1900's would be, who is going to learn how to fuel up the gas car at a station when all people know is feed their horse when leaving home and go?

These are all unrelated. This isn’t about flip phones and horses. It’s far more basic than that.

It’s the basic idea - E or (<10%) on the gauge means time to fill it up. And it’s not full unless it’s at F or 100%.

Frankly the actual remedy to this is to standardize all EVs to calibrate the charge remaining gauge to show empty at 20% and full at 80%. It’s very easy to do since everything is electronic now.

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by olrocker

These are all unrelated. This isn’t about flip phones and horses. It’s far more basic than that.

It’s the basic idea - E or (<10%) on the gauge means time to fill it up. And it’s not full unless it’s at F or 100%.

Of course it's related.

You're arguing a person can't/incapable of changing behavior when it comes to ICE vs EV.

Flip phone to iPhone required a change in behavior.

Feeding your horse to draw a carriage to filling up a car required a change in behavior.

People adapted.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

Of course it's related.

You're arguing a person can't/incapable of changing behavior when it comes to ICE vs EV.

Flip phone to iPhone required a change in behavior.

Feeding your horse to draw a carriage to filling up a car required a change in behavior.

People adapted.

Incorrect.

I stand firmly my by analysis as fact. You’re free to your opinion.