Motor Trend Head to Head: 2015 Camaro 1LE vs. new 2015 Mustang 5.0 GT PP

[Angrybird 12]

Which motor would be cheapest to build from scratch to achieve 500hp and 500lbft of torque without using forced induction?

[Firefighter]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

Which motor would be cheapest to build from scratch to achieve 500hp and 500lbft of torque without using forced induction?

LS... anything. Hell SBC anything or even BBC anything.

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[PYROLYSIS]

Losing to a competitor's new offering is acceptable. Losing to a car they had more than enough time to engineer against is not. They definitely could have had a much better car with more aggressive springs and stickier tires. Not sure why they went the direction they did. You can't say they didn't try because to me a larger radiator and 6 piston front brakes showed they were serious about improving the track performance. It's a shame that they didn't meet their goals on weight because that really is the biggest disappointment and is probably due to more stringent crash standards which the 6th gen Camaro will also be subject to. To say that the Camaro is not it's direct competitor is a huge mistake and a cop out just like refusing the Boss for direct comparison was. People keep saying that the 1LE trounced the Boss in magazine tests but it was only compared directly in one article and no video or lap times were provided. That being said I do believe the consensus is that the Boss is a much more worthy competitor than the 15 GTPP. I don't believe GM will relax and will maintain their lead on the road course. A modest 100-150 lb loss with the LT1 and current suspension technology will keep the 6th gen 1LE way out in front. I do hope Ford steps up their game because it truly is a more exciting rivalry when both sides trade wins back and forth.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Firefighter

LS... anything. Hell SBC anything or even BBC anything.

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That's what I thought, something proponents of DOHC do not want to talk about.... No matter if building one from scratch or having to rebuild one, the DOHC motors will cost much more.

[GONIF]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

After reading this I have to go to the fridge, yep it's that time....Carry on

Now you got the right idea ,beer thirty.
So it may be wider but it isn't heavier ,and may be more complicated and able to rev higher. And we will have to wait and see what the General doe's on the next Gen C8 for the answer to the power and fuel economy .

Riddle me this then , if the Chevy Silverado OHV v8 cost the same as a Ford F150 OHC v8 and the Base Mustang GT OHC V8 cost the same as a base Chevy Camaro SS OHV v8 how the hell doe's Ford make a profit on them ? Seams to me the cost difference is quite small . Any way if and when Chevy go's OHC in a Corvette or Camaro we will see how the numbers tell the tale.

[X25]

It (DOHC) is heavier for the same displacement for sure; unless it's made of titanium : p

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by GONIF

Any way if and when Chevy go's OHC in a Corvette or Camaro we will see how the numbers tell the tale.

don't hold your breath....
Anyway I recall Fbodfather saying early on that the V6 Camaro cost the very close to the same to build as the SS Camaro did. Including all the performance upgrades the SS has. So why do the V6 cars cost as much as the SS to build?

[GONIF]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

don't hold your breath....
Anyway I recall Fbodfather saying early on that the V6 Camaro cost the very close to the same to build as the SS Camaro did. Including all the performance upgrades the SS has. So why do the V6 cars cost as much as the SS to build?

Maybe they need the CAFE numbers or the auto insurance is too high on a v8 for some buyers ? Oh and then there is the need to do the good ,better ,best game and make more profit on the upgrade. A $7500.00 Z28 has got that prestige along with performance some are willing to pay for , and the profit has got to be great on that bad boy . There are Chevy dealers here in Phoenix that have $15000.00 ADM on top of that $75000.00 price . Talk about high gross .

[102SS]

Originally Posted by GONIF

Ford is a direct /same price competitor ,and were the Coyote engine 6.3 liter ,it would flat out kill the pushrod LS3 , 74 cubic inches is a lot to give up . So apples to apples cubic inches to same cubic inches . DOHC multi valve has better breathing capacity' i.e. volumetric efficiency especially at lower valve lifts. ...Proven time and time again . Will a OHV engine win LeMans ever again ? Will Porsche ever go back to OHV ? As Danny Divito said in the movie Other peoples money ' I bet the last company that made buggy whips probably made the best buggy whip ever made. I want to see a DOHC 376 ci NA motor in a 3000 pound C7 . Now that would be a world beater ,until GM turbo charges a DOHC V8 .

Ok so if GM added 3 more cams then it would kill the Ford.

Thank God GM had the sense to stick with an affordable and easy to work on engine.

Why do you think its the most swapped V8 engine in the world now?

Affordability, packaging, and its easy to work on.

BTW put 6 pistons on the front of the 1LE and lets make it even.

Plus to all the 3k in suspension would make the Mustang better/faster people:

Their car is already 5k more so 8k in mods would get a nice Maggie,that Stang aint catching a maggied 1LE anywhere

[GONIF]

Lets not get silly with 3 cams ,it's how the cams are actuated and how much air they flow . But yes better brakes on the Camaro would be nice , how about the CTS V brakes , they are right on GM's shelf and would be a welcome addition .

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by GONIF

Maybe they need the CAFE numbers or the auto insurance is too high on a v8 for some buyers ? Oh and then there is the need to do the good ,better ,best game and make more profit on the upgrade. A $7500.00 Z28 has got that prestige along with performance some are willing to pay for , and the profit has got to be great on that bad boy . There are Chevy dealers here in Phoenix that have $15000.00 ADM on top of that $75000.00 price . Talk about high gross .

What does CAFE numbers and insurance have to do with how much it costs to build a car?

[102SS]

Originally Posted by GONIF

Lets not get silly with 3 cams ,it's how the cams are actuated and how much air they flow . But yes better brakes on the Camaro would be nice , how about the CTS V brakes , they are right on GM's shelf and would be a welcome addition .

3 MORE cams we already have one

[102SS]

Originally Posted by GONIF

Lets not get silly with 3 cams ,it's how the cams are actuated and how much air they flow . But yes better brakes on the Camaro would be nice , how about the CTS V brakes , they are right on GM's shelf and would be a welcome addition .

They put 6 pistons on the ZL1 as well.

The Stang PP gets a 6P upgrade if GM allowed us to check that box the SS1LE would be a world beater for cheap right from the factory.

[cbass]

Originally Posted by Stingray

It's ashame the new 5.0 is taking a social media beating due to this head-to-head... what do you expect when even the Mustang's Chief Engineer said they are shooting above & beyond- targeting 911's and M3's alike, not the Camaro's any longer. In short, it's a straighforward performance metric shortcoming... a major one too since Camaros and Mustangs are always looked at as perfect rivals.

That was the problem. The 1LE was already faster than those cars on the track. They said the new mustang would be faster than a Boss. I'm sure it was, however the 1LE was faster than the boss. They met their goals. They just ignored the car that should have been the benchmark.