What's with all the automatic hate?

[DDoug]

Originally Posted by mrmarklin

Jealouis haters because autos are faster.

If manual is better, why are all the high end Eurobrands going auto?

The reality is that no matter how good you are, the computer is a faster and smarter shifter.

I owned my last 3 pedal way back in 1989. Haven't missed it.

It's NOT about being faster!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


It's about enjoying the ride!!!!!!!!!!!!!


If it was only about being faster, a 240 lb heavier convertible would not even be built!!!!!


And, the BMW M6 ONLY has a DCT. EXCEPT here in the USA, where a proper manual can still be ordered.

I love this thread!

[islander033]

Thanks to this thread, I can finaly admit that I hate the modded auto ZL1.....

[Sven59]

Originally Posted by islander033

Thanks to this thread, I can finaly admit that I hate the modded auto ZL1.....

Because all you ever see is its tailights?

[BigBoyBlue]

Originally Posted by jessrayo

Oh boy... Autos are not faster..... this is a wrong statement. Look at the drag trap speeds of the stock cars and the manuals always have a faster top speed. I don't know, maybe it is because so many people live in the city and only drive their cars from stoplight to stop light that they don't realize there is more to the world than a quarter mile. Yes that auto can blip three shifts but from then on, the manual runs it down and leaves it in the dust. The manual may have a slower time in a quarter but the manual is always faster in top speed. Do you know why? Because that slushbox is sucking 30 more horsepower out of the engine than the manual. Check the dyno sheets if you don't believe me. The manuals make more power because the auto is not as mechanically efficient.

If you never drive further than 1/4 mile the auto will be quicker for you, if you get on the open road the manual will whip the auto every time because it doesn't have that slushbox sucking power form the engine.

The eurobrands comment has been addressed above in several of the 200 other posts you did not read. Those are automated manual transmissions with clutches and throwout bearing just like the ZL1 manual, not slushbox autos like is available in the ZL1.

The only smart thing that this auto can do is shift on the redline if you peg the throttle. Fine if you are in a quarter mile, but if you put that thing on the road course and leave it in D for Drive it is dumber than a box of rocks and will have you in the wrong gear half the time and shifting mid corner screwing up the chassis. Unless the only driving you do is stomping the pedal in a straight line for a 1/4 mile or less, it is not quicker or faster, everyone road racing an auto shifts with paddles because the trans is dumb. And if you are going to shift yourself, why put a 30hp restrictor on the car? Because you are lazy or not skilled or you plan on poking around town in your ZL1 a lot more than you plan on driving it agressively on the open road. I understand this. Just don't try to tell me it is because it is faster...lol.

Autos are better for drag racing short distances. Paddle shifters are better for people that don't have the coordination and skill to operate a clutch. If you let the cars run on the open road, the manual puts more power to the tires and will run the auto down and leave it in the dust.

Well written.

[rontammy0]

Originally Posted by jessrayo

Oh boy... Autos are not faster..... this is a wrong statement. Look at the drag trap speeds of the stock cars and the manuals always have a faster top speed. I don't know, maybe it is because so many people live in the city and only drive their cars from stoplight to stop light that they don't realize there is more to the world than a quarter mile. Yes that auto can blip three shifts but from then on, the manual runs it down and leaves it in the dust. The manual may have a slower time in a quarter but the manual is always faster in top speed. Do you know why? Because that slushbox is sucking 30 more horsepower out of the engine than the manual. Check the dyno sheets if you don't believe me. The manuals make more power because the auto is not as mechanically efficient.

If you never drive further than 1/4 mile the auto will be quicker for you, if you get on the open road the manual will whip the auto every time because it doesn't have that slushbox sucking power form the engine.

The eurobrands comment has been addressed above in several of the 200 other posts you did not read. Those are automated manual transmissions with clutches and throwout bearing just like the ZL1 manual, not slushbox autos like is available in the ZL1.

The only smart thing that this auto can do is shift on the redline if you peg the throttle. Fine if you are in a quarter mile, but if you put that thing on the road course and leave it in D for Drive it is dumber than a box of rocks and will have you in the wrong gear half the time and shifting mid corner screwing up the chassis. Unless the only driving you do is stomping the pedal in a straight line for a 1/4 mile or less, it is not quicker or faster, everyone road racing an auto shifts with paddles because the trans is dumb. And if you are going to shift yourself, why put a 30hp restrictor on the car? Because you are lazy or not skilled or you plan on poking around town in your ZL1 a lot more than you plan on driving it agressively on the open road. I understand this. Just don't try to tell me it is because it is faster...lol.

Autos are better for drag racing short distances. Paddle shifters are better for people that don't have the coordination and skill to operate a clutch. If you let the cars run on the open road, the manual puts more power to the tires and will run the auto down and leave it in the dust.

Manual cars are so much easier to drive today. Like I've said before,
you now have help getting going on a hill. Yep the skill level is rising isn't it.
I can row the gear just fine..and I paddle shift my auto..so much for that incorrect statement.

[Mvp_Me]

Originally Posted by rontammy0

Manual cars are so much easier to drive today. Like I've said before,
you now have help getting going on a hill. Yep the skill level is rising isn't it.
I can row the gear just fine..and I paddle shift my auto..so much for that incorrect statement.

I don't have hill assist. am i in the real drivers line

[rontammy0]

I don't need it either when I'm driving stick....but there are those that do.

[Explit Player]

Originally Posted by Whos_Drivin

I believe most of us are pushing 600 hp if not already over. Doesn't take much to get there in a ZL1.

Talking about the general Camaro lineup. Alot of people have V8 camaros that are manual, but not ZL1s (like me) and it just isnt as fun when im in an automatic car that has about the same power as my SS.


(Didnt mean to exclude the ZL1s in my original comment)

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by boondocksaint

When GM finally develops/co-opts a true paddle-shifted manual transmission, the economy of scale will begin to phase out the true manual, just as it has for other automakers. It will be a money question.

Let's take that thought a little further.

It is not at all pleasant to consider that one's own preferences might go away with little that an individual can do about it. The manual transmission situation isn't quite "got our backs against the wall" for ponycars/muscle cars quite yet, though we're already past that point in most other segments of the car market. Ultimately everybody's loss, actually.

There are a few who post the "manuals will disappear" line of thought with some apparent glee that their transmission preference will outlive ours.

I wonder if those same folks will sit quietly by if the conventional automatic itself get squeezed out of the market by the CVT.

Be careful what you wish for?


Norm

[PQ]

The worst statements in this argument, to me, are the ones who make a negative connotation about auto guy somehow being low for letting technology take over.

All the while I know for a fact that 90% of you manual guys would have to be taught how to drive a sliding mesh transmission where you had to rev match every gear up or down. Miss a shift in one of those and it cost 5 times the recovery time. haha

The modern manual transmission would be considered by those old school guys, and is considered by anyone who's driven and 18 wheeler for any period of time, to be as easy as tap shift is to manual tranny guy.

It's all relative. Todays constant mesh manual transmissions could very well be laughed at by someone more old school.

Funner to drive, HELL YES. But more in the way of a video game is fun to play. Easy to do but fun as hell.

[islander033]

Originally Posted by Sven59

Because all you ever see is its tailights?

Exactly!

lol

[Whos_Drivin]

In the end we are all here to enjoy our cars. Whether you enjoy dragging, showing, cruising, modding, etc its all personal preference. Auto vs manual isn't the only debate. There's always a bunch of desk jockeys to throw out their opinion. GM vs Ford, driving vs storing, daily driver vs trailer queens. Enjoy what you have however you want to enjoy it and appreciate the variety we have to choose from.

[jessrayo]

Originally Posted by Whos_Drivin

In the end we are all here to enjoy our cars. Whether you enjoy dragging, showing, cruising, modding, etc its all personal preference. Auto vs manual isn't the only debate. There's always a bunch of desk jockeys to throw out their opinion. GM vs Ford, driving vs storing, daily driver vs trailer queens. Enjoy what you have however you want to enjoy it and appreciate the variety we have to choose from.

Amen brother!

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by PQ

The worst statements in this argument, to me, are the ones who make a negative connotation about auto guy somehow being low for letting technology take over.

All the while I know for a fact that 90% of you manual guys would have to be taught how to drive a sliding mesh transmission where you had to rev match every gear up or down. Miss a shift in one of those and it cost 5 times the recovery time. haha

The modern manual transmission would be considered by those old school guys, and is considered by anyone who's driven and 18 wheeler for any period of time, to be as easy as tap shift is to manual tranny guy.

It's all relative. Todays constant mesh manual transmissions could very well be laughed at by someone more old school.

Funner to drive, HELL YES. But more in the way of a video game is fun to play. Easy to do but fun as hell.

I'm afraid that I'm not following where the video game reference is going here.

There certainly is a difference in the physical skill level required between synchromesh and non-synchro'd manual transmissions - clutchlessly shifting a synchro transmission up/down is probably the closest that most of us will ever get to dealing with sliding gear transmissions. But in both the philosophical sense and in the sense of keeping the throttle separate from transmission operation sense these two are virtually identical.

With an automatic, the driver is basically signing a [virtual] agreement to let somebody else's thoughts and preferences override their own, even if that's only some of the time. That is what you're doing when you choose to let either hydraulic or electronic logic take over for you, and it's a difference in philosophy as much as it is about the slight differences in physical operation. Perhaps even more so.

MT enthusiasts are probably objecting to having gear choice taken away and wondering across the keyboard why anybody would find giving that up to be preferable, while many AT enthusiasts can't seem to grasp that not everybody wants to let the transmission always (or only sometimes) just do its thing.

I guess it's just too hard for people to step outside themselves and see either-or topics such as this one without any bias at all. Probably the best that can be hoped for is for people to understand the 'other' side on a mental awareness level but not as a gut-level preference.

Originally Posted by jessrayo

Amen brother!

Fair enough.


Norm