This is how Chevy treats my $45,000 "track ready" car

[Mark T]

Thank you. Although I am not one with one of the clutch problems, I have purchased several new cars and have used dealer service both in and out of warranty on various cars and brands over the years. I appreciate your candor Lee.

Originally Posted by hcsi99

I can't stress enough how important it is to have a good relationship with your dealer. I also understand it is a two way street. You could be totally up front with your service department and they could still be total dicks.

Therin is part of the problem here. A multinational multibillion dollar company with a significant history is the manufacturer of the products we are paying serious cash for. Yet the industry standard is we have to buy our car from independant retailers with varying degrees of professionalism and proper brand and product representation. And as noted in these threads, there are alot of brand representatives (dealers/service depts) that could give a ratts ass about the customer post-sale. (This is the primary reason Tesla will succeed. And Chevy should be jumping on that bandwagon instead of fighting it tooth and nail. The dealer rarely properly represents the brand. Tesla is going to make alot of people satisfied and make alot of money as a result of the others pushing away their customers.)

We are likely to give you the benefit of the doubt, and warranty something at least once, but this is very case by case.

And that is what most people hope for the dollars spent. Understanding and appreciation. We all know a few would take advantage of that. We all know that is by far not the majority.

We also make our decision based on the customer too. You catch more flies with honey, just remember that.

But this is where the dealer service fails. I am one to know how to be civil and how to bread the butter. I also expect the same in return. But whether a doting old forgetful lady, a ditsy blond, a stupid teenager, a crusty old pissed marine, or just someone who had a real bad day before going into the service department... they all spent their hard earned cash and bought a car packaged with reasonable expectation. None of them should have to be expected to say pretty please and I am sorry, in order to get decent and proper service. None of them. Especially under warranty even if close to experation. It really is the black eye of the industry. And reflects very poorly on the brand.

Keep a level head and I think it will get you much further.

My parent taught me that. And it works. (Please reread the above paragraph prior to see how this works in many past experiences.)



Like I said, I sincerely appreciate your candor. And I hope Chevy is progressive enough to understand the time is now for change. It is smart in this day and age. And it is utterly unbelievable that the big manufacturers would rather stick with what worked 100 years ago, than to move forward with their brand into the modern era.



Something else my parents tought me about running a business.

The customer comes first.

Anyone else ever heard of such a preposterous idea like that?
(Sorry for the sarcasm. It wasnt really needed)


Sincerely;
Mark T

[KaBoom1701]

Originally Posted by backeddy

Cornerspeed, it is great to see that YOUR dealer is taking care of you!

Might be worth driving to SoCal to his dealership!

[hcsi99]

But this is where the dealer service fails. I am one to know how to be civil and how to bread the butter. I also expect the same in return. But whether a doting old forgetful lady, a ditsy blond, a stupid teenager, a crusty old pissed marine, or just someone who had a real bad day before going into the service department... they all spent their hard earned cash and bought a car packaged with reasonable expectation. None of them should have to be expected to say pretty please and I am sorry, in order to get decent and proper service. None of them. Especially under warranty even if close to experation. It really is the black eye of the industry. And reflects very poorly on the brand.

I agree, but the dealer is the one who decided on what is warranty and what isn't in most cases. If there is a situation where a repair being warrantied is in question, I'm more likely to bend over backwards for a level headed person than a person that comes in with a chip on his or her shoulder. Just human nature I guess.

[gajagfan]

One thing that came to mind last night was would the dealer not be trying to help secure you a warranty claim? I thought warranty work was a great thing for the dealer. They fix your car and are reimbursed by GM for the labor work and parts. I am sure that they can not warranty things that are outside of what should be covered, but it would seem that supporting the customer to the best they can would be mutually beneficial for both the dealer and the customer. Am I looking at this wrong?

[hcsi99]

That's the way I see it too. The dealership gets paid for warranty work, the customer doesn't have to pay for it, all are happy.

[backeddy]

One thing that came to mind last night was would the dealer not be trying to help

secure you a warranty claim? I thought warranty work was a great thing for the dealer. They fix your car and are reimbursed by GM for the labor work and parts. I am sure that they can not warranty things that are outside of what should be covered, but it would seem that supporting the customer to the best they can would be mutually beneficial for both the dealer and the customer. Am I looking at this wrong?

I was NOTHING BUT NICE......However.....I did walk out on a deal a few months ago, just before I signed on the dotted line. I received a credit monitor "new hard inquiry by XXXXX auto group" even though I walked in fully funded by BOFA, and I was assured they would not do anything. so it went like this "ding" ......A$$holes.....bye!.... I have a really unique last name and the sales manger saw me roll up and went straight to the service dept....next thing, no warranty! Hence part of my anger.

[SixSpeeder]

I didn't have the time to read the whole thread, but I don't see why you (OP) would think that they would honor the full factory warranty of a vehicle that has been tracked, even though that is it's intended purpose. Track use is not the same as road use, and even though your 1LE is a track model, it does not come with a special track warranty (nor does any car that I've heard of).

A lot of manufacturer's will hold track events/promotions for hot cars to get you to buy them, but once it's yours, taking it on a track is at your own risk. Hours on a track equals thousands of miles of normal use, and if one doesn't know how to drive correctly, they can cause a lot of damage to a vehicles powertrain/ driveline on a race track (not saying that you don't). We can only hope a good dealer would do warranty work in good faith on a case by case basis, but saying that I have a track car from the factory and therefore, I should be able to leave the tach in the redline for 4 hours straight and then get my dealer to replace a broken rod, is just not realistic.

Good luck, hopefully you get taken care of if your issue is a known problem that happens to normally driven Camaros.

[backeddy]

Sixspeed, because the issued shows up ONLY UNDER TRACK CONDITIONS. There is nowhere you can legally shift 2-3 at 6000rpms except the track. So it happened the first, second, thirtieth shift and this is a known issue in cars that have never seen the track. THAT'S WHY.

[SixSpeeder]

Originally Posted by backeddy

Sixspeed, because the issued shows up ONLY UNDER TRACK CONDITIONS. There is nowhere you can legally shift 2-3 at 6000rpms except the track. So it happened the first, second, thirtieth shift and this is a known issue in cars that have never seen the track. THAT'S WHY.

That sucks man, it's pathetic to think that they designed a vehicle for track use that can't handle track use on OEM hardware. But at the same time, I understand why manufacturers won't honor their warranty if they know a vehicle has been tracked, there are too many variables, especially the skill level of the driver (not you personally, but car owners as a whole). I really do feel for you, I've been there.

[Billy10mm]

Originally Posted by gajagfan

One thing that came to mind last night was would the dealer not be trying to help secure you a warranty claim? I thought warranty work was a great thing for the dealer. They fix your car and are reimbursed by GM for the labor work and parts. I am sure that they can not warranty things that are outside of what should be covered, but it would seem that supporting the customer to the best they can would be mutually beneficial for both the dealer and the customer. Am I looking at this wrong?

I have spoken in length with two different service managers about this topic.

The first service manager was at my BMW motorcycle dealership. He routinely frowned upon my visits as they were always warranty items and he hated the use I was putting on my bike. I had a 2003 BMW K1200LT, for that that don't know, this is a Honda Goldwing equivalent with a 6-CD changer and heated seats ... like a 750i with two wheels. Anyway, this was my mine and my wife's daily commuter and driving it in and around NYC every day, multiple times a day, we discovered a number issues that the casual weekend rider might never come across.

He tried to deny me one day on a trunk latch that broke, saying that I was abusing the vehicle. We went back and forth, got the head of the dealership involved, and ultimately got the regional BMW service rep involved and despite the fact that the BMW rep said, "Yeah, this is our problem. Fix it for him.", my service manager was still upset. Months later, and no longer pissed at me, I asked him what the deal was - why was he so upset since BMW will cover it? The answer was that BMW had a list of exactly how long things should take to correct.

If someone came in to replace a radio (I had to have the radio replaced 7 times), BMW payed out "X" hours worth of labor to the dealership. But "X" was always a fairly optimal time and it assumed that the tech did a perfect job. If the tech broke a retaining clip while removing the body work, and if they had to order that clip from Germany, they either had to pay at their own expense for expedited shipping (which could be $40 for a $2 plastic part), or my bike would sit in that service bay, rendering the bay unusable, until that part would come in 5 days later. This was absurd to me. I said that he has the same problem whether its a customer paying out of pocket or if BMW is paying. His answer was, "Yeah, but I could charge the customer $42 for the part. I can't do that to BMW." Obviously this brought a look of disgust to my face, and he realized what he had just said and tried to hurriedly retract that statement.

He retracted it by giving me another example. Which is that if, for instance, the repair work was a cam replacement. BMW gave him X hours worth of labor but his techs weren't always able to get it done in that time. This one was a better example, but simply showed that he hired people that didn't have adequate training.

An important note is that this is the same service manager who, after I complained that my 15K mile service was $990 (~$400 more than they told me it would be when I dropped the bike off), he proceeded to tell me how they barely make any money on the service. That they only charge customers for 9 hours worth of labor, when it takes their technicians around 8 hours to complete the job. So they only make about $110 on that job. I politely explained to him that he charges me $110 per hour but only pays that technician $20 per hour, and that the DIFFERENCE was where they get paid. I then explained that I'm only authorizing him to charge me $880. We had to get dealership management involved in that one again and the service manager was no longer employed there a few months later. The point is, he was an idiot, so who knows if his excuses for warranty work are actually true, but that's what I was told.

The second service manager I talked to about warranty work was at my Subaru dealership and we got into the topic as I regaled him with the stories of the aforementioned idiot. Despite the comedy of the story, he confirmed that that is occasionally a problem for him as well. He gets paid out "X" for a warranty claim, regardless of what extra time it might take to fix something.

His specific example was of a control-arm recall on certain models, and being paid for "X" amount of labor, even though many cars would come in with rusted out suspension bolts that needed to be heated up (blow torch) to get off, and Subaru wouldn't pay for the rubber bushing, which melted because of the blow torch, to be replaced or the extra time needed to get the bolt loose and the melted rubber scrubbed out.

[strych9]

Originally Posted by gajagfan

One thing that came to mind last night was would the dealer not be trying to help secure you a warranty claim? I thought warranty work was a great thing for the dealer. They fix your car and are reimbursed by GM for the labor work and parts. I am sure that they can not warranty things that are outside of what should be covered, but it would seem that supporting the customer to the best they can would be mutually beneficial for both the dealer and the customer. Am I looking at this wrong?

Warranty work for a dealer is never a good thing. They have to do the work for cut-rate percentage of what their retail rate is. They still make some money, but they tie up bays that could be filled with retail work.

Here's the big "gotcha" for them: they must return all parts replaced under warranty to corporate for evaluation. If corporate determines that the parts did not need to be replaced, or that they failed for any reason outside of a defective part or factory installation, the dealer will not be reimbursed ONE SINGLE DIME for the repair in question. That's exactly why they go out of their way to scrutinize every repair. Some tend to err on the side of profit, and will gladly give you the finger if they feel that the failure was caused in any way by abuse or neglect. Better your loss, than theirs.

Think about it.

[VOGGS-LS3-1LE]

Originally Posted by hcsi99

That's the way I see it too. The dealership gets paid for warranty work, the customer doesn't have to pay for it, all are happy.

until the parts get sent back to gm, they deny the warranty claim, dealer pays, someone gets fired. the dealer was thinking along the guidelines set forth by gm. you as a gm advisor should know that......

[hcsi99]

Here's the big "gotcha" for them: they must return all parts replaced under warranty to corporate for evaluation. If corporate determines that the parts did not need to be replaced, or that they failed for any reason outside of a defective part or factory installation, the dealer will not be reimbursed ONE SINGLE DIME for the repair in question. That's exactly why they go out of their way to scrutinize every repair. Some tend to err on the side of profit, and will gladly give you the finger if they feel that the failure was caused in any way by abuse or neglect. Better your loss, than theirs.

This isn't' entirely true. Yes GM does call back some of the parts for evaluation, but very rarely do they charge the dealer back. We keep parts for 30 days, and what doesn't get called back (70% doesn't) we throw away.

As far as "cut rate" My GM warranty labor rate is $125.96 an hour, my customer rate is $130.00, not to far off. GM might be a little lite on time they pay to do a job but if you have documentation ( a really good story and punch time) that something gave you trouble when trying to diagnose, or repair, you can get other labor ours (OLH) if needed.

GM is so worried about customer retention with all of its brands that they have given dealers power to warranty something like a wheel a customer broken on a curb, or a hole in a seat cover that a customer might have put in with a pen. This claims are few and far between, but if it came down to $1000 repair, or the chance of loosing a customer, GM would rather just pay the $1000 and keep a customer.

OP, Find another service department, call the service manager, explain your problem (leave the tracking part out), and see if he/she is willing to help. Tell them you would love to give them your business. If they are a good dealer the will welcome you with open arms, if they are not the will blow you off. If that's what happens move on to the next dealer.

[hcsi99]

Originally Posted by VOGGS-LS3-1LE

until the parts get sent back to gm, they deny the warranty claim, dealer pays, someone gets fired. the dealer was thinking along the guidelines set forth by gm. you as a gm advisor should know that......

Not so much. If this was a guy had purchased a car from my dealership and for some strange reason the claim was denied, even after explaining the situation to the area rep whom would problem agree to warranty his problem at least once, and the dealer wash charged back our owner would have no problem paying for it if it meant keeping a customer happy. That's why I work where I work, and have for 11 years.