FIXED!!Monster clutch. Those that have tracked,question concerning your 1LE's clutch

[CrystalRedTintcoat]

Thanks for the update Todd and Steve. Look forward to hearing what we should do. Best luck. Todd, 2015 with no mechanical woes ... I'm rooting for you!


-CRT

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[cornerspeed92]

Originally Posted by h018871

appologies if i came across as an @$$.

i'm an engineer and so i want to know................ i really did not mean to expect you to have the answers. this is a toughie, and each of us is doing something slightly different that may or may not have an affect.

i just want to run the car fast and have it reasonably reliable with predictive maintenance.

Never once thought you came across as an @ss. I wasn't responding to anyone person i was just sharing what i was told

Originally Posted by CrystalRedTintcoat

Mark, I thought the manual says once you go to DOT4 do not put DOT3 back in.


-CRT

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This i dont know.

Originally Posted by CrystalRedTintcoat

But if you don't rev match on the downshift you might bring the rear end around sideways. Right? So what is the proper action? No brake and double clutch (rev, shift, release)? Just mash it down and hope you don't slide out?


-CRT

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Yeah that goes against everything that sounds reasonable.

Originally Posted by CHMSC

I call BS

I run DOT4 24/7 and no issues.

Hey Doug, yes and i will continue doing the same, i currently still have Dot 3 in the clutch but Dot 4 is going in when they put her all back together.

Originally Posted by 90503

Too bad all they could come up with was mis-use of LaunchControl as a reason for the pedal sticking and clutch problems....I think its wishful thinking on their part and definitely not an answer anyone here was looking for to solve the clutch/pedal issues that are occurring....

I read my manual again on LaunchControl....."release clutch smoothly and quickly...." That doesn't sound like a hard clutch dump to me...and besides, it never came off the floor more than an inch, not much room for error on the driver's part....Nonetheless it sounds like a diversionary issue, and not a plausible answer anyone was looking for....and the mystery of clutch pedal issues will march on unresolved once again....

As far as Dot4 and Dot3....That was the first track/braking mod that I ever did, and a world of difference in how long the brakes hold up under track conditions before going soft....

Stay tuned for more clutch failure updates....

Agreed!!! and i know no way i was hard on my clutch...yes i truly used it, i mean it's a track car. I know in my case i come in hard and late on the brakes and i want ALL of my foot on the pedal. I have been working on heal toe, it's easy on the street, but it all changes on track for me, so this i will have to master.

Originally Posted by Orange Crush 1LE

Guys, I knew tracking at Buttonwillow was iffy with my clutch acting up...

Catastrophic failure at the track this weekend. Clutch pedal swings freely as if not connected to the slave at all, fluid puked out the bottom of the car, even the engine shut down and a message said Stabilitrak needs service, along with a Low Brake Fluid warning. Had to get a tow off the track.

Good thing I didn't lose brakes too, because I was about to. Safety alone is a good reason for separating the clutch reservoir from brake fluid reservoir.

I'm working with SNL/Monster Clutch Co. on a whole new set up.

PS- The day wasn't a total loss, I did set a new personal best despite fighting the clutch, 1:56.3 Buttonwillow Raceway, 13CW. I'm trying to stay positive, LOL

Todd man that sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by X25

I'd like to make a few points:

• DOT3 fluid lasts longer on average than comparable DOT4 fluid since it can absorb more humidity before losing any significant high boiling point capacity. This is the reason why most manufacturers still prefer DOT3 in some applications. DOT4 would require more frequent replacement intervals. That said, the Corvettes that come with the little reservoir come with DOT4 fluid from the factory.
• Replacing the fluid back and forth is absurd. Just like replacing pretty much any bolt you touch on the suspension. Did you ever see the alignment guy replacing your bolts? I thought so.
• Rev-matching reduces the load on the clutch significantly, and also let you release the clutch much faster. In the process, you also keep your clutch from overheating. The service bulletin is all about the launch control mode; I'd be careful and hesitant to generalize it to daily use. Since 2004 (when my brother screwed up my then-brand-new STi's transmission synchros), I always rev match every down shift, including at the streets. Once you get used to hit, it stops being a hassle, and actually increases the fun since a perfect blip warrants a buttery-smooth engagement, and you try to do so.
• I thought it was obvious to everyone, but perhaps we should reiterate: always use DOT4 fluid in your sports cars (on both brakes and clutch), and don't leave the fluid untouched for longer than a year (high quality fluids like Motul, ATE, etc. have a long life in the system compared to lower quality DOT4 fluids, but an average DOT4 fluid will go bad much faster than DOT3, especially if you have a demanding application). Yes, I'd ignore "replace after every track day" recommendations; that's ridiculous.
• My recommendation is: always rev-match (or double clutch), be conscious of your clutch timing (as I mentioned before), always use DOT4, and beware small reservoirs.

Good words X25, and im not changing anything except the tick speed bleeder and the stainless steel braided clutch line, and master heal toe.

[h018871]

Dang Crush!
keeping positive is the way to go. congrats on the PB, BTW!!!

[Orange Crush 1LE]

Thanks guys, hoping if I do this clutch right that the car will hold up for a while. I've got the DSS 1,000 axles and a fully forged engine. Please let this clutch be the last weak link, LOL.

[Orange Crush 1LE]

Guys, after discussing at length with various suppliers that build race cars, I decided to go with a full race clutch. I'm at 600 HP and 580 Ft-Lbs at the flywheel, and I will do a full season of NASA competition next year.

First, thanks to Jacob at SNL / Monster Clutch, I think their solutions are the best choice for 95% of the forum members and at an excellent price. But my car is a dedicated track car and has been plagued with breakdowns, so I'm going overkill and have chosen a different solution.

I went with a Quarter Master Optimum-SR 10.4" Two-Disc Clutch, Flywheel & Release Bearing. This is a heavy duty billet unit rated at 1,400 HP and 1,000 Ft-Lbs. In addition, they have a kit to beef up the slave cylinder including a billet steel bearing housing that we all know is a weak link. This is the same set up as the Grand Am Continental Tire Sports Car Challenge Series Camaros run and has been shown to reliably withstand the stresses of long track sessions:

http://www.quartermasterusa.com/qm/o...kit-14170html/

I'm also going with the seperate clutch and brake reservoirs, remote clutch bleeder and a braided clutch line. Seperate reservoirs = safety. If the clutch pukes, you don't lose your brakes (almost happened to me, scary to see a puddle of fluid under your car after tracking at 125 MPH)

This had better fix it!!! Really tired of all the breakdowns and expense. Here's the good news- the shop that's fixing it is located at Buttonwillow Raceway, so I will be able to test the crap out of it immediately after the work.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Orange Crush 1LE

Guys, after discussing at length with various suppliers that build race cars, I decided to go with a full race clutch. I'm at 600 HP and 580 Ft-Lbs at the flywheel, and I will do a full season of NASA competition next year.

First, thanks to Jacob at SNL / Monster Clutch, I think their solutions are the best choice for 95% of the forum members and at an excellent price. But my car is a dedicated track car and has been plagued with breakdowns, so I'm going overkill and have chosen a different solution.

I went with a Quarter Master Optimum-SR 10.4" Two-Disc Clutch, Flywheel & Release Bearing. This is a heavy duty billet unit rated at 1,400 HP and 1,000 Ft-Lbs. In addition, they have a kit to beef up the slave cylinder including a billet steel bearing housing that we all know is a weak link. This is the same set up as the Grand Am Continental Tire Sports Car Challenge Series Camaros run and has been shown to reliably withstand the stresses of long track sessions:

http://www.quartermasterusa.com/qm/o...kit-14170html/

I'm also going with the seperate clutch and brake reservoirs, remote clutch bleeder and a braided clutch line.

This had better fix it!!! Really tired of all the breakdowns and expense. Here's the good news- the shop that's fixing it is located at Buttonwillow Raceway, so I will be able to test the crap out of it immediately after the work.

That's sounds terrific, Todd. Hope it all works out and you get in a year of trouble-free tracking!....

For the rest of us, just wondering if indeed that stock slave cylinder is the problem...(poor quality, bad design, etc.)....Just wondering if it's even possible to avoid failure at some point, or is it inevitable?....I mean, if once the clutch starts to stick, are we doomed?....Has the cylinder gone bad from lack of bleeding? Would it be worthwhile to add a braided line and bleeder to the existing set-up or just ride it out until/if it all fails like yours did and then upgrade everything?....

....If you or your mechanics could possibly pin-point what goes bad first...fluid, lack of bleeding, heat stress on cylinder fluid, etc....and if there is any reasonable preventive maintenance that could be done in the meantime, or if a complete up-grade and replacement is the best way to go...It would sure help a lot of us to know what to expect or which direction to go in the meantime...

Maybe that's asking too much of the proverbial crystal ball, but we sure aren't getting any good direction from the GM dealerships...lol...

Thanks, and good luck. Tom.

[Orange Crush 1LE]

Originally Posted by 90503

That's sounds terrific, Todd. Hope it all works out and you get in a year of trouble-free tracking!....

For the rest of us, just wondering if indeed that stock slave cylinder is the problem...(poor quality, bad design, etc.)....Just wondering if it's even possible to avoid failure at some point, or is it inevitable?....I mean, if once the clutch starts to stick, are we doomed?....Has the cylinder gone bad from lack of bleeding? Would it be worthwhile to add a braided line and bleeder to the existing set-up or just ride it out until/if it all fails like yours did and then upgrade everything?....

....If you or your mechanics could possibly pin-point what goes bad first...fluid, lack of bleeding, heat stress on cylinder fluid, etc....and if there is any reasonable preventive maintenance that could be done in the meantime, or if a complete up-grade and replacement is the best way to go...It would sure help a lot of us to know what to expect or which direction to go in the meantime...

Maybe that's asking too much of the proverbial crystal ball, but we sure aren't getting any good direction from the GM dealerships...lol...

Thanks, and good luck. Tom.

Thanks Tom, I'll ask him to give us insights as to what went wrong first and keep you guys posted.

I know I had old nasty black fluid around the time the trouble began, so that may have contributed. My engine builder told me that merely removing and replacing the engine is hard on the crappy stock slave cylinder, so that may be part of the root cause. No question the slave cylinder is horrible, everyone in the clutch business I talked to knew of the problem with the plastic bearing housing. But we'll learn more is he digs in.

I already know one thing- if anyone has the car apart to replace the master, may as well replace the clutch to. The Monster clutches are reasonable in price, may as well upgrade clutch and slave as soon as you have the dreaded symptoms.

[X25]

That Quarter Master clutch looks very good! If the following statement is correct, it will also feel great to use!

http://www.quartermasterusa.com/qm/o...kit-14170html/

.. features a spring designed to require only a 10 percent increase in pedal effort over stock, with stock-type modulation control.

[90503]

Originally Posted by X25

That Quarter Master clutch looks very good! If the following statement is correct, it will also feel great to use!

http://www.quartermasterusa.com/qm/o...kit-14170html/

An awesome set-up, for sure....But perhaps (even as I believe Todd stated) that clutch is over-kill even for his car...lol...

Most of us perhaps can go the MonsterClutch route....The QuarterMaster looks like at least a grand or so more...

...All good...I think I'll start here first when the time comes:

http://monsterclutches.com/gen-5-cam...ace-multi-disc

[Steve@SNL/Monster Clutch]

Originally Posted by 90503

An awesome set-up, for sure....But perhaps (even as I believe Todd stated) that clutch is over-kill even for his car...lol...

Most of us perhaps can go the MonsterClutch route....The QuarterMaster looks like at least a grand or so more...

...All good...I think I'll start here first when the time comes:

http://monsterclutches.com/gen-5-cam...ace-multi-disc

Quartermaster makes some good stuff, but, I agree with your statement.

[Orange Crush 1LE]

Originally Posted by X25

That Quarter Master clutch looks very good! If the following statement is correct, it will also feel great to use!

http://www.quartermasterusa.com/qm/o...kit-14170html/

Yes it looks to be a very thought-out unit, that was iterated on until it was light, reliable, and streetable so they say. I'll be the guinea pig and let you know

[Firefighter]

Did I just read $2700 on that quarter master? Holy crap....

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[Steve@SNL/Monster Clutch]

Originally Posted by Orange Crush 1LE

Yes it looks to be a very thought-out unit, that was iterated on until it was light, reliable, and streetable so they say. I'll be the guinea pig and let you know

I know Jeff out there at Quartermaster, they're a great group of guys and do really well in the racing world. I'm sure you'll like it.

[Orange Crush 1LE]

Originally Posted by Firefighter

Did I just read $2700 on that quarter master? Holy crap....

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Gulp, yes, that's right. It was a hard pill to swallow.

Originally Posted by Steve@SNL/Monster Clutch

I know Jeff out there at Quartermaster, they're a great group of guys and do really well in the racing world. I'm sure you'll like it.

Yes, in fact Jeff is one of the guys I spoke with at length, he often works with the builds that the shop at Buttonwillow puts together.

And thanks again, you guys were very helpful. Like I said, best solution for most.