Motor Trend Head to Head: 2015 Camaro 1LE vs. new 2015 Mustang 5.0 GT PP

[Chris1SS1LE]

I been following all the forums for past couple days and even non mustang and camaro forums. Its shocking that the mustang6g forum is so clueless on what equipment is actually on a 1LE. They have the ZL1 and Z28 equipment specs all mixed in. My favorite is they are all betting the all mighty GT-350 is going to save them all. But that is the same crap they been slinging about the GT with the PP option. They really want us to believe a GT-350 that cost $70k is going to achievable by most the people who can only afford a GT.

I never seen so much whining and complaining, that the 1LE is cheating and the GT they used is too fancy and doesn't have the recaro seats, blah blah blah.

My real favorite is that they said all it needs to smoke the 1LE is a good set of shocks and springs with aftermarket wider wheels and tires. Well folks a good set of shocks is Bilstien or Koni's at a minimum and with a spec springs that is going to run you about a grand, then wheels and tires is about $2000. So take that same $3000 to the camaro and add headers and a cam swap, then your going to see some panties get real twisted when the 1LE with cam and headers murders a GT-350 and sorry guys a Z28 and ZL1.

That's what I love about this car and its package, its a ZL1 minus a blower. So everything you need to upgrade to add power is already in place. You want to add a SLP supercharger, well now your equal to a ZL1 for less then $10k. You want to add a 454LSX shortblock for $8K, well even with cnc LS3 heads and intake you will be pushing more torque and HP then a LS7.

Just like building a house you want a solid foundation, the 1LE package is the foundation.

I came from mustangs and IRS cobra's. All this "chevy has had the IRS since 2006" to work out the bugs is crap. The 1995 Thunderbird with a 5.0 push-rod was a IRS and it is very equal to the same IRS in the 2004 Cobra. Trust me coming from a IRS cobra that I had to swap out almost every bushing to delrin or aluminum and throw in spring rates higher then some front racing springs, just to get the wheel hop to stop. Plus ford has had IRS in the explorers too. They have had plenty of time to figure out how to do it right.

Also lets put this M3 and porsche 911 was the target and not the camaro. R U effing serious about porsche. That car is designed to racecar first and road car seconded. That thing goes around a race track like its going to get milk at the grocery store. Also M3 really a car that cost north of $40k new, not a M package on a 3 series. Because BMW is pyschotic that any non-actual M car does not come from the factory with a LSD rearends. Yes folks your $38,000 3 series with the M package is a one wheel peel. You can't even swap in a LSD since the ring and diff is one piece. So you want LSD rearend you have to buy a real M3 and your in the high $40's, a friggin 135 "M" is $48K minimum.

So Mustang Boys your GT PP is solely targeting the 1LE, your holy grail GT-350 is going to be Z28 money. So accept it, ford let you down twice.

Because your Laguna Seca special model died to a 1LE too.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by GONIF

Lets not get silly with 3 cams ,it's how the cams are actuated and how much air they flow . But yes better brakes on the Camaro would be nice , how about the CTS V brakes , they are right on GM's shelf and would be a welcome addition .

Adding 3 cams instead of only one isn't exactly silly - there are some neat things you can do with valve timing once you allow the exhaust timing to vary its phasing with respect to the intake timing.


Norm

[cornerspeed92]

Didn't want to start a new thread, but i just found this. I hope this is new.

[PYROLYSIS]

Originally Posted by 102SS

Ok so if GM added 3 more cams then it would kill the Ford.

Thank God GM had the sense to stick with an affordable and easy to work on engine.

Why do you think its the most swapped V8 engine in the world now?

Affordability, packaging, and its easy to work on.

BTW put 6 pistons on the front of the 1LE and lets make it even.

Plus to all the 3k in suspension would make the Mustang better/faster people:

Their car is already 5k more so 8k in mods would get a nice Maggie,that Stang aint catching a maggied 1LE anywhere

Your view on pricing is backwards. It's already been determined that a 15 GTPP can be had for a couple grand less than the 1LE.

[Blueclyde]

I am completely shocked by the results of this H2H. Ford must have bench marked the Camaro to extreme degree. If they did not that was a tremendous mistake. I can't believe they missed the mark with their track pack by that much. That's a big blow to lose that badly to a heavier car at the end of its life cycle. Unreal. I must say, I do like the looks of the new Mustang. I wouldn't buy one, but I do think it's a sharp car.

[Stingray]

Originally Posted by cbass

That was the problem. The 1LE was already faster than those cars on the track. They said the new mustang would be faster than a Boss. I'm sure it was, however the 1LE was faster than the boss. They met their goals. They just ignored the car that should have been the benchmark.

But even that feat or milestone was like a glass half-full or moreso half-empty... because even in the most popular "fast" metrics (specifically 0-60 and the 1/4 mile), the new S550 GT w/ PP is still car lengths behind the S197 Boss 302. They certainly did not suceed there...

[102SS]

Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS

Your view on pricing is backwards. It's already been determined that a 15 GTPP can be had for a couple grand less than the 1LE.

The base price was cheaper but once you add the options it was 5k more.

That's something Ford has always done,how many base stripped models are they making/selling?

Everyone wants leather/air,power group bigger wheels tires ect.

I got the pricing from the article/photo's on the first page of this thread.

I also read 3 pages of the SVT forum thread before I gave up on that non sense.

[BaylorCamaro]

Originally Posted by Chris1SS1LE

Its shocking that the mustang6g forum is so clueless on what equipment is actually on a 1LE. They have the ZL1 and Z28 equipment specs all mixed in.

Yeah I'm fighting a losing battle over there. It's funny because the guys over on the SVT forum see the new Mustang for what it is. The guys on Mustang6g are (for the most part) in serious denial.

[PYROLYSIS]

Originally Posted by 102SS

The base price was cheaper but once you add the options it was 5k more.

That's something Ford has always done,how many base stripped models are they making/selling?

Everyone wants leather/air,power group bigger wheels tires ect.

I got the pricing from the article/photo's on the first page of this thread.

I also read 3 pages of the SVT forum thread before I gave up on that non sense.

Equal base pricing with only performance options added in is the fairest comparison due to different bells and whistles being offered on higher trim levels. We're comparing performance packs, not cupholders and HID headlights.

[Egon]

Originally Posted by Egon

I don't understand this just from a consumer perspective. If I was one of the early adopters of the 2015 Mustang and then the next model year later they add a whole bunch of stuff to make the car better than my 2015 model I would be quite upset.

I suppose so, but I did not follow the Mustang (or Camaro) during that time as I had no possibility of owning either one. My question comes up because of all of the talk from the Mustang forums about drastic improvements next year to overcome the current 1LE. Its one thing to fix something that is wrong about the car but something completely different to say "oh we were sandbagging our competition here is what we really had available" and whip out 30 more hp. Especially if it were not something that was relatively easy to upgrade on the previous model years without a serious rebuild. I am sure Chevrolet has done it at some point as well, I just don't think it would sit well with me and it's probably why I never buy anything the first year it is released.

Originally Posted by Egon

Fellow Camaro fans keep in mind that the 1LE was created by taking some of the go fast bits from the ZL1 along with some nice chassis tuning to produce something that sits between the base SS and the ZL1 and focused for the track. This also allowed Chevrolet to spread out their development costs for some of those go fast bits across more models, and its one of the reasons why the 1LE package is such a great deal. Since they already had those parts on the shelf why not make a few more bucks with an intermediate package and the 1LE was born. Unless Chevrolet plans on releasing the ZL1 or whatever its equivalent will be for the 6th Gen right out of the gates the base SS will not have a ready made set of go fast parts to do this with. So for that reason we may not have a 1LE for the 2016 model year.

That is my expectation as well. Once all of the speed parts have been developed for the higher performance models and are then allowed to trickle down to the regular SS we will have our new 1LE. I think its the most logical way to go and I think its why the Mustang guys are feeling disappointed right now. If Ford had just left off the Performance Pack all-together for the first model year and then brought out one once the development was finished for the GT350 and used parts from that vehicle on the regular Mustang GT the Mustang guys would be much happier right now.

BTW I have also been following your comments over at Mustang6 in their discussion about the 1LE vs. GTPP and would like to thank you for being a good ambassador to the Ford guys over there, and also to thank all of the Ford guys over here like LostPony, Norm Peterson, and Fenderaddict2 for their great insight and civility over the years in all of our discussions about the cars we own and love so much. We need to invite them to the next CamaroFest or something.

Hey LostPony I have some family in WV, and aside from the snow in winter there are some crazy mountain roads out there where you can have a lot of fun in a car like your Boss or a 1LE.

[Egon]

Originally Posted by BaylorCamaro

Yeah I'm fighting a losing battle over there. It's funny because the guys over on the SVT forum see the new Mustang for what it is. The guys on Mustang6g are (for the most part) in serious denial.

From my reading over there is seems like they are on stage 1 of the 7 stages of Grief. Give them time. Someday the shoe could be on the other foot so keep encouraging them to soldier on. Except that guy thePill F that guy.

[BaylorCamaro]

Originally Posted by Egon

Except that guy thePill F that guy.

LOL

[Todd in Vancouver]

Originally Posted by BaylorCamaro

Yeah I'm fighting a losing battle over there. It's funny because the guys over on the SVT forum see the new Mustang for what it is. The guys on Mustang6g are (for the most part) in serious denial.

Ya, I went over there and read your postings and while some of them really get it (SVT guys seem like legit car guys). But with some the blind hatred they have for the Camaro (M6G guys, Wow) just won't let them believe what is happening right before their eyes. Like I've said if the new GT350 doesn't tear up the track they will really lose their minds and there is a good chance of that against the Z/28.

I can honestly say I drove the GT500, SRT8 and the ZL1 and it wasn't even close when I considered the best all round car. I'd have happily purchased any one of them if it was better, and it was, and I did. I've never really understood the blind faith in any one brand because it's any particular brand. If the GT350 comes out and slaughters everything by a large margin and is the best all round car then I'd buy one, that simple. But, I expect my next car will be a 6th Gen ZL1 as the current trend is looking like it will clean up if the Z06 is any indication.

[Erik427]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

That's what I thought, something proponents of DOHC do not want to talk about.... No matter if building one from scratch or having to rebuild one, the DOHC motors will cost much more.

Set of long tube headers, Boss intake or CobraJet and the coyote will hit 500hp. Cheaper, maybe not. I don't know.