A MUST READ for Oil Temps for Tracking

[tadams72]

Originally Posted by X25

I know that you get denied if you have engine internals replaced (like cams, heads, etc.), which makes sense. I am yet to see anyone with a failed engine with stock internals from the 1LE community, to be honest. When it comes to bolt-ons, it becomes arguable. However, getting an engine issue warranty denied for having brake ducting on a car, as was suggested, is ridiculous.

Agreed with your break ducting comment by the way. That would be BS in itself unless there were some extenuating circumstances we did not know of.

[X25]

Originally Posted by tadams72

X,

I think you are missing the point of what Pete is saying. Bottom line, tracking your car is an extreme environment and WILL break stuff. When that happens you have to be prepared for the possibility it is not going to be a warranty item. I've seen GM fight warranty work on several friends cars including two ZO6s that were bone stock but GM tried to claim "racing" was excessive abuse even those these were HPDE cars. Couple that with people who mod their cars and in some cases try to pull a fast one, how can you blame them. Bottom line, you pay to play. Trust me I know better than most when it comes to the Camaro. You know this too. Don't own a single JPSS part but he is a knowledgeable guy and he is right. Trying to get GM to warranty broken cars under false pretenses is nothing more than lying and stealing. I believe that was the other point.

No disrespect intended but it's true we have to own that what we do is clearly outriders or pushing the boundaries of the intent of the car.

My point is clear and simple. No one is suggesting warranty claims with false pretenses here, so who is the audience who needs to 'man-up'? When you introduce words like 'man-up', 'balls', etc., you just lose me there. It is especially disappointing to hear that from a reputable vendor. I otherwise agree with what you're saying.

[jamestown]

While I have used information from pete's posts in the past and thank him for it, I can't help but feel we hit on a subject that he has a predesposed annoyance for. His post is somewhat pointed, and makes a lot of assumptions.

My post regarding dexos approval was just to clear up misconseptions about what oils gm thinks are ok or not. I live in a country that is less pro consumer than the USA, and I think you'd want to know where the lines in the sand are so the average Joe here can make an informed decision with regards to what they do with their car on and off track.

If this information is abused, that is on the abuser. I think being able to discuss the topic of warranty openly on a forum and without prejudice is valueable, and I stand by it.

[hcsi99]

Guys, when a car needs warrant work it is first up tot the service manager to decide if any modifications have contributed to the failure. Technically bolt on's can void the powertrain warranty if the service manager can prove it was directly related to the failure. If you have a tune there is no question the powertrain warranty can be considered void. I've also seen guys get stuff covered that shouldn't have been warranty.
I've discussed tracking a stock car and warranting failures like engine, trans, and rear diff. My rep's told me that I needed to try to find out if the car was driven hard or was it abuse, consider if the cyst bought the car new and from us, and maintenance record, make sure they are following the track maintenance schedule in the owners manual. He also said that if I'm not 100% sure what the cause was to warranty it once but let the customer know they next time is on them.
Like I've said in other post, it's all about the service manager and the dealer you are working with. Some dealers have to run every powertrain repair up the ladder and get authorization from their rep before doing the work. My store is a certified elite dealer and has self authorization authority, but that came from doing thing the correct way. Cornerspeed has a great relationship with his dealer, and may have had some things warrantied that would not have been warranty at other stores. My guess is the dealer sees the value in taking care of their customer that drives his car the way it was advertised. I wish everyone had this relationship with their dealer.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by X25

The nice thing about Mobil 1 variants is that you can state that you have Mobil1 5W-30 in there; I doubt they would ever ask which Mobil 1 it is.

Since I'm an impulse buyer, I do have 12 cases of Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP, not to mention leftover EP. Once they're done, I might switch to Redline's regular 5W-30.

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Pardon my interruption.

Dual oil coolers. Brake ducts. Bolt in cages. Harness bars. Tank plates. Countless other upgrades. Cover my engine under warranty? Really?

For all those tracking their cars and posting videos, doing picture by picture build threads and discussing oil values in detail on the internet the least of your warranty concerns is the brand of oil you have in your engine.

That aside, why should anyone reasonably expect the GM warranty cover an engine that has run oil over 300* and been subjected to extreme use? I expect GM to treat a customer fairly. That comes with an obligation from the owner to be fair to GM. I have watched from a distance as the merits of various oils have been discussed here with some merit. I also watch as a builder and cringe at what is being said. We'll lie cheat and deceive to get an abused engine covered under warranty, even though it was treated it like a chemistry experiment.

Why should the Service Writer that reads Camaro5 treat any Camaro owner with anything but complete and utter disdain while doubting every explanation they here about an issue with their Camaro?

Time to put on the big boy pants and man up. If you track your car it is going to break. Period. Not if. Simply when. Start your rebuild fund tonight along with plans for what you want your next engine to be. Make sure the plan includes a HD drysump system, radiator, oil cooler...

Feel free to go back to business as usual, but don't ever say you were not told straight up, the reality of tracking your car hard.

Originally Posted by X25

Just so you know, we are talking about cars either designed for track or has a track package like Z/28 and 1LE. If guidelines in the user manual are followed (including oil specs), they WILL honor the warranty, definitely for a stock engine. Track use does not void warranty, even if you reach 300 degrees F. FYI, GM considers 320 degrees F as the engine overheat limit, and cuts engine power at that level, which still doesn't void your warranty.

Please leave your man-up comments at your table, drinking with your friends. I'd have expected better from a reputable vendor like you.

Stock my man. Stock.

Suspension mods in place to increase G loads - Check
Aftermarket wheels and tires to increase G loads - Check
Brake mods in place to increase G loads - Check
Modified oil system cooler - Check

What about this process of continually increasing the capabilities of the car and the corresponding increases in load on the engine confuse you?

I for one would have expected better from a serial poster like you.

[Superman09]

Post for reference cause my phone sucks

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by hcsi99

Guys, when a car needs warrant work it is first up tot the service manager to decide if any modifications have contributed to the failure. Technically bolt on's can void the powertrain warranty if the service manager can prove it was directly related to the failure. If you have a tune there is no question the powertrain warranty can be considered void. I've also seen guys get stuff covered that shouldn't have been warranty.
I've discussed tracking a stock car and warranting failures like engine, trans, and rear diff. My rep's told me that I needed to try to find out if the car was driven hard or was it abuse, consider if the cyst bought the car new and from us, and maintenance record, make sure they are following the track maintenance schedule in the owners manual. He also said that if I'm not 100% sure what the cause was to warranty it once but let the customer know they next time is on them.
Like I've said in other post, it's all about the service manager and the dealer you are working with. Some dealers have to run every powertrain repair up the ladder and get authorization from their rep before doing the work. My store is a certified elite dealer and has self authorization authority, but that came from doing thing the correct way. Cornerspeed has a great relationship with his dealer, and may have had some things warrantied that would not have been warranty at other stores. My guess is the dealer sees the value in taking care of their customer that drives his car the way it was advertised. I wish everyone had this relationship with their dealer.

You are a tremendous asset to your dealership, GM and Camaro5. Thank you for hanging around Camaro5 and posting valuable information.

[hcsi99]

Pete that wasn't sarcasm because if it was you didn't use the sarcasm font.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by hcsi99

Pete that wasn't sarcasm because if it was you didn't use the sarcasm font.

I am pretty straight forward and call'm as I see'm. You and a handful of other GM corporate and GM dealership employees make very valuable contributions to this forum and community. I for one appreciate it.

[L99CAMA2011]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Pardon my interruption.

Dual oil coolers. Brake ducts. Bolt in cages. Harness bars. Tank plates. Countless other upgrades. Cover my engine under warranty? Really?

For all those tracking their cars and posting videos, doing picture by picture build threads and discussing oil values in detail on the internet the least of your warranty concerns is the brand of oil you have in your engine.

That aside, why should anyone reasonably expect the GM warranty cover an engine that has run oil over 300* and been subjected to extreme use? I expect GM to treat a customer fairly. That comes with an obligation from the owner to be fair to GM. I have watched from a distance as the merits of various oils have been discussed here with some merit. I also watch as a builder and cringe at what is being said. We'll lie cheat and deceive to get an abused engine covered under warranty, even though it was treated it like a chemistry experiment.

Why should the Service Writer that reads Camaro5 treat any Camaro owner with anything but complete and utter disdain while doubting every explanation they here about an issue with their Camaro?

Time to put on the big boy pants and man up. If you track your car it is going to break. Period. Not if. Simply when. Start your rebuild fund tonight along with plans for what you want your next engine to be. Make sure the plan includes a HD drysump system, radiator, oil cooler...

Feel free to go back to business as usual, but don't ever say you were not told straight up, the reality of tracking your car hard.

maybe it's because we have the same month and day of birth but different years. I couldn't agree more. I mean I do agree GM could do a better job at other things and quality control does lack in areas but let's be real. Race engines don't see even 100,000 miles. So unfortunately we either get a car that can be tracked and see more miles than the LS3 or do like I plan and buy take out LS3 from other members upgrading to stroked motors for low cost. One of the reasons I bought this car is because of the $6K cost of a block that can be installed by dealer.I know Porsche guys and BMW owners with $10 K rebuilds not even new engines. But also the best we can do is try to keep the engines as protected as possible like for example don't stupidly run low oil or get that cheap crap from the corner gas station or run dealer stock 5w30 on track. Deal is to do your own oil change, monitor the oil drained with Blackstone labs and keep away from the rev limiter.

[L99CAMA2011]

Originally Posted by Superman09

Post for reference cause my phone sucks

Mine does too and I paid $600 for that freaking thing 2 years ago.

[L99CAMA2011]

Originally Posted by X25

I also had friends who had issues with their Corvette, and GM fixed it. One guy in CorvetteForum has grenaded his engine (LS7) two times at the track, and GM replaced the engine again, but said the second one is the last one he will get for free (this was before the larger dry sump was added in 2009, fixing the oil starvation issue).

Following GM guidelines is not only good for warranty cases, but it's also usually good for your car since GM tests the cars with these guidelines, which is why I try to adhere to. I've been driving at the track for about 10 years, and I am yet to make a warranty claim or blow up an engine. If you keep your engine mostly stock, they usually hold up.

"If you keep your engine mostly stock, they usually hold up. " Not true for someone who tracks an L99 Camaro.

[L99CAMA2011]

Originally Posted by X25

By the way, why did you not want to go with Redline's 5W-30? I think that's what I'll go with next time. It is dexos1 approved, close enough to Mobil 1 5W-30 viscosity numbers, yet provides protection of a 40 weight at high temp (HTHS 3.7).
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=2&pcid=21

I hate the idea of having to use race oil in a street car engine. I also wonder what would happen to my cats if I did so.

This is the very same brand and weight that I put in 8 quarts and 2500 miles later drained 5qts. Good luck bud. Other oils used after that experienced only lost .5 qt at 3000 miles so it was definitely that oil.

[X25]

Originally Posted by L99CAMA2011

This is the very same brand and weight that I put in 8 quarts and 2500 miles later drained 5qts. Good luck bud. Other oils used after that experienced only lost .5 qt at 3000 miles so it was definitely that oil.

Well, it turns out it's not dexos1 approved, but rather the manufacturer 'thinks' it meets the spec. I don't know what the quality of the oil is, but it's misleading.