Motor Trend Head to Head: 2015 Camaro 1LE vs. new 2015 Mustang 5.0 GT PP

[Firefighter]

Originally Posted by Erik427

Set of long tube headers, Boss intake or CobraJet and the coyote will hit 500hp. Cheaper, maybe not. I don't know.

Al I needed was a set of LT's and a CAI, tuned and I'm well over 500 HP at the flywheel. I put down 432/422...

I did it with premium parts but I could have gotten very similar with a combo package of some less expensive products.

Give me about six months and I'll hopefully have my Heads (2), Cam (1), and intake manifold (1) done and I full well expect to put down 90 HP - 100 HP more than I do now. That'll have me well over 600 HP at the flywheel.

I could be wrong but I doubt a Coyote motor can do that without forced induction.

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[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Erik427

Set of long tube headers, Boss intake or CobraJet and the coyote will hit 500hp. Cheaper, maybe not. I don't know.

Checking on the prices of crate engines, both engines retail for close to the same amount. Now what the profit margin is on each one I can't say.

[Firefighter]

I think the biggest reason the LS3 vs. Coyote debate gets skewed in the Higher HP numbers is the displacement. Think of this, the LS3 doesn't HAVE to rev to high RPM'S to make HP where the Coyote does. It's reasonable to assume that an LS motor can Rev to 10K with the right parts (it gets done in racing) but the Coyote (I doubt it can) can't Rev to 15K to make the same numbers.

Now if the Coyote was say 6L or more and it still reved like the devil it would be a sick motor and GM would have to reconsider it's valve and cam placement.

Problem is a 6L motor that can Rev to 15K and make say 550 - 600 HP N/A would have so many high end materials in it and the cost would sky rocket.

Then the Mustang would have to be talked about with BMW'S and Merc's. Regular Joe's like us would be out of the conversation.

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[Erik427]

Originally Posted by Firefighter

Al I needed was a set of LT's and a CAI, tuned and I'm well over 500 HP at the flywheel. I put down 432/422...

I did it with premium parts but I could have gotten very similar with a combo package of some less expensive products.

Give me about six months and I'll hopefully have my Heads (2), Cam (1), and intake manifold (1) done and I full well expect to put down 90 HP - 100 HP more than I do now. That'll have me well over 600 HP at the flywheel.

I could be wrong but I doubt a Coyote motor can do that without forced induction.

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Competition cams says the Coyote will do the same and of course a few internet posters. Most stick with what I just posted. As for hitting the 600 mark, SVT Performance has a few members that are getting 525-535hp at the wheels. The basic combo is this, CNC ported heads, cams, ported CobraJet intake, throttle body, cai and long tube headers. If it's true or not, I don't know. The internet is what it is.....600 hp out of either one of these two motors is fantastic. This would not have happened ten years ago.

[SEVEN-OH JOE]

For those Ford people comparing engine sizes, but who don't want to sully themselves by looking under a GM hood, here's a Ford Family graphic.

FE = 390-427-428 Wedge; 351 is wider AND taller than the Windsor 289-302, but is VERY close to the size of a current SBC.

The width of a 4-cam Modular motor is as great as a 427 SOHC or a BOSS 429. Major surgery is required to put a Mod motor in a Gen-1 Mustang.

[Grabber]

Originally Posted by Erik427

Set of long tube headers, Boss intake or CobraJet and the coyote will hit 500hp. Cheaper, maybe not. I don't know.

Don't even need longtubes to hit 500 HP. See sig.

Originally Posted by Firefighter

Al I needed was a set of LT's and a CAI, tuned and I'm well over 500 HP at the flywheel. I put down 432/422...

I did it with premium parts but I could have gotten very similar with a combo package of some less expensive products.

Give me about six months and I'll hopefully have my Heads (2), Cam (1), and intake manifold (1) done and I full well expect to put down 90 HP - 100 HP more than I do now. That'll have me well over 600 HP at the flywheel.

I could be wrong but I doubt a Coyote motor can do that without forced induction.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

I'm making a bit more HP than you but haven't gained a lot of torque since my car is still running stock headers/Mid-pipe. I'm at 438 with Intake/Intake Manifold, Cat-Deletes, TB, Tune. All parts bought brand new, including the cost of tuning, I'm around 3K. I spend 1,500 more for Longtubes, Mid-pipe and a re-tune, I'll be around 450-460 RWHP and 400+ RWTQ.

Just my .02

Originally Posted by Firefighter

I think the biggest reason the LS3 vs. Coyote debate gets skewed in the Higher HP numbers is the displacement. Think of this, the LS3 doesn't HAVE to rev to high RPM'S to make HP where the Coyote does. It's reasonable to assume that an LS motor can Rev to 10K with the right parts (it gets done in racing) but the Coyote (I doubt it can) can't Rev to 15K to make the same numbers.

Now if the Coyote was say 6L or more and it still reved like the devil it would be a sick motor and GM would have to reconsider it's valve and cam placement.

Problem is a 6L motor that can Rev to 15K and make say 550 - 600 HP N/A would have so many high end materials in it and the cost would sky rocket.

Then the Mustang would have to be talked about with BMW'S and Merc's. Regular Joe's like us would be out of the conversation.

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On the dyno, my 5.0 makes power all the way up to 7,500 RPM. I can check my dyno sheet, but, at 6-6.5K RPM I'm making close to what my peak numbers are (400+ RWHP) My answer to your comment is 5.0's make plenty of power through mid-range and even more up top. It's a different breed of modular engines where as my old 3V or 4V 4.6 03 Cobra would stop making power past 7K RPM and it would slowly fall off.

You can rev the 5.0 to 8K with the CJ Manifold and a clutch since the clutch can't really handle anything past 7,200-7,400 RPM consistently and still will still make power at that RPM range (8K)

[Erik427]

Originally Posted by SEVEN-OH JOE

For those Ford people comparing engine sizes, but who don't want to sully themselves by looking under a GM hood, here's a Ford Family graphic.

The 351 is hard to pass up.....nice and skinny.

[big hammer]

Originally Posted by Firefighter

I think the biggest reason the LS3 vs. Coyote debate gets skewed in the Higher HP numbers is the displacement. Think of this, the LS3 doesn't HAVE to rev to high RPM'S to make HP where the Coyote does. It's reasonable to assume that an LS motor can Rev to 10K with the right parts (it gets done in racing) but the Coyote (I doubt it can) can't Rev to 15K to make the same numbers.

Now if the Coyote was say 6L or more and it still reved like the devil it would be a sick motor and GM would have to reconsider it's valve and cam placement.

Problem is a 6L motor that can Rev to 15K and make say 550 - 600 HP N/A would have so many high end materials in it and the cost would sky rocket.

Then the Mustang would have to be talked about with BMW'S and Merc's. Regular Joe's like us would be out of the conversation.

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also a 6 liter modular would be devastating to ford's CAFE rating. their DOHC engines are just to inefficient.

[SEVEN-OH JOE]

Originally Posted by Erik427

The 351 is hard to pass up.....nice and skinny.

Just like ALL SBCs. Better packaging ability makes for possibly more compact vehicle dimensions. With suspension and modern performance tires fitment considerations, the Mustang can only shrink so much with Mod v8 power. In the Gen-6 Mustang's case, it didn't shrink at all.

The Camaro is not so restricted, and THAT will be key part of the puzzle for the Gen-6 Camaro's final size, and, therefore, weight.

[2011shelby]

Originally Posted by big hammer

also a 6 liter modular would be devastating to ford's CAFE rating. their DOHC engines are just to inefficient.

How do you figure their inefficient when the Gt500 doesn't have a GG tax, but the ZL1 does?

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by GONIF

[B]Riddle me this then , if the Chevy Silverado OHV v8 cost the same as a Ford F150 OHC v8 and the Base Mustang GT OHC V8 cost the same as a base Chevy Camaro SS OHV v8 how the hell doe's Ford make a profit on them ? Seams to me the cost difference is quite small . Any way if and when Chevy go's OHC in a Corvette or Camaro we will see how the numbers tell the tale.

Ford makes a profit by cutting production costs and materials in other areas and by spreading development costs across as many platforms as possible. Which is why there are so few enthusiast choices and so many vanilla cars in the FoMoCo lineup. The cost cutting is evident in their below average dependability ratings year after year.

Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS

Your view on pricing is backwards. It's already been determined that a 15 GTPP can be had for a couple grand less than the 1LE.

The Mustang has always been cheaper than the Camaro which makes it funny that the Camaro still outsells the Mustang at a higher price X 5 years.

Originally Posted by 2011shelby

How do you figure their inefficient when the Gt500 doesn't have a GG tax, but the ZL1 does?

Has less to do with the engine and more to do with vehicle weight and gearing. Same reason the LS3 Corvette gets significantly better mileage than the LS3 Camaro.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BaylorCamaro

You mean like what Ford did with the 2010/2011 Mustang?

The difference is as Medisin pointed out to me in a different thread, the difference is the 5.0 was not in production yet. I tried to use the same argument about the GTO how it launched with the LS1 then the next year the LS2 was the standard motor. the LS2 debuted in 05. Much like the coyote 5.0 debuted in 11. BUT as Medisin and others pointed out this is different. This is kind of a wait an see approach where they might revise somethings for more power.

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

The Mustang has always been cheaper than the Camaro which makes it funny that the Camaro still outsells the Mustang at a higher price X 5 years.


.

That is interesting for sure. I bet a lot of it had to do with all those potential 03-09 Camaro owners finally getting a chance to get their camaro.

Some more of my thoughts on the GT PP VS 1LE. it is disappointing that it couldn't keep up. Plain and simple there is no arguing this or that. both cars showed up and the Camaro clearly won in about 9 out of 10 of things they commented on and tested on.

and the guys on Mustang6G are just wow...just wow.

[qcman]

I enjoyed the video and the 1LE is a beast! But I would like to see comparisons of standard model SS to same on the GT and maybe how the 2 Automatic trannie versions compare speaking as someone who is saddled with AFM argh! (disabled mind you)

In fairness to Ford I would expect to see more Gt's with PP on the road than Camaro 1LE's as the 1LE is a very rare car in my neck of the woods as I have never seen one on the road yet.

I like the new Mustangs personally and think the 302 is a heck of an engine but doubt I would buy one either.

Cam

[Firefighter]

Originally Posted by Erik427

Competition cams says the Coyote will do the same and of course a few internet posters. Most stick with what I just posted. As for hitting the 600 mark, SVT Performance has a few members that are getting 525-535hp at the wheels. The basic combo is this, CNC ported heads, cams, ported CobraJet intake, throttle body, cai and long tube headers. If it's true or not, I don't know. The internet is what it is.....600 hp out of either one of these two motors is fantastic. This would not have happened ten years ago.

Out of curiosity at what RPM do they achieve those numbers? They have to be winding the hell out of that little 302.

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