ZL1 vs GT500 This Friday.

[shaffe]

I agree with what you said. as I have said before. All I have been trying to show is that the numbers do not show a clear draw like golden bear said. if anything it shows edge to GT500 as far as road course lap time results. GB was trying to say road course results are 1-1-and 2 draws when the numbers show otherwise. ALL I am saying is the numbers dont support his argument AND again I agree the ZL1 is the better car.

[74z28]

GB, You have so much GM Kool-Aid rnning through you veins you can't see the reality. Are you on GMs payroll? You have been working hard to manipulate opinions to make them come out the way you want. The only thing you have is opinions. EVERYBODY has one, and most are skewed and biased. If it makes you feel better continue on. It dosent really change the FACTS. The ZL1 has not lived up to the build-up. Care to state any of Al Oppenheimer quotes now. Apperantly they were all opinions and not real facts either. If you want a good riding car that preforms well wouldnt a CTS-V be the better car? If you want Kick-A$$ preformance, well, we know which car lives up to the hype.

[Bad@ssCamaro]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I agree with what you said. as I have said before. All I have been trying to show is that the numbers do not show a clear draw like golden bear said. if anything it shows edge to GT500 as far as road course lap time results. GB was trying to say road course results are 1-1-and 2 draws when the numbers show otherwise. ALL I am saying is the numbers dont support his argument AND again I agree the ZL1 is the better car.

You are correct that the GT500 had taken 2 out of 3 of those laps, but if GB made an observation that might of been an oversight, that would be up to him to admit that there was. I understand that you are trying to correct it, but is it really worth it?

[shaffe]

yes lol, bc we had a rather lengthy argument about the same thing in another thread and when I felt i had brought enough info to the table, he stopped posting back to me. I also feel I have agreed with him on pretty much everything else he has posted. plus im taking a long lunch break and its giving me something to do at work hahaha

[Bad@ssCamaro]

Originally Posted by 74z28

GB, You have so much GM Kool-Aid rnning through you veins you can't see the reality. Are you on GMs payroll? You have been working hard to manipulate opinions to make them come out the way you want. The only thing you have is opinions. EVERYBODY has one, and most are skewed and biased. If it makes you feel better continue on. It dosent really change the FACTS. The ZL1 has not lived up to the build-up. Care to state any of Al Oppenheimer quotes now. Apperantly they were all opinions and not real facts either. If you want a good riding car that preforms well wouldnt a CTS-V be the better car? If you want Kick-A$$ preformance, well, we know which car lives up to the hype.

Says you. I'm still impressed with what the ZL1 can do and it don't matter that the GT500 does certain things different or better, I still would buy the car. People make a fuss over Al O's statement, but who really GAS, in the end, it's what put's a smile on your face.

[A-little-perspective]

Originally Posted by IOMZL1

Fast forward to reality where generally the ZL1 has been observed to be more consistent on the track, “hard lap after hard lap”. Racing has 2 facets when it comes to lap times – qualifying and race. Generally setups are modified between qualifying and the race because the qualifying setup would be too difficult to drive over the course of a race. The race setup tends to be more comfortable, compliant, easier to drive but a tick slower around the track.

GM has admitted to making the ZL1 easier to drive over the long haul and this is exactly what it would seem they have accomplished. Perhaps another MRC calibration would have given Aaron Link the capability to lap faster around VIR or the ring on one flying lap, but for the masses what they seem to have landed on may have been the better choice for a long day of running. Hero lap, indeed.

Hard lap after hard lap? As far as anyone knows, all that means is 3 laps. After that, it's anyones guess because there is no evidence to suggest otherwise.

Now, reality is that an actual ZL1, believe it or not, did suffer heat soak on a track. Another ZL1 did experience brake fade after a few laps during a track session. Impossible, I know. Apparently it did happen though.

Regarding the ring. Well, GM has said a lot about the ZL1. But, considering how underwhelming the ZL1 is over a 1/4 mile (compared to the press release), you naturally have to wonder if Aaron Link himself could get a production ZL1 (post QC hold?) around the ring even close to 7:40.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Bad@ssCamaro

Says you. I'm still impressed with what the ZL1 can do and it don't matter that the GT500 does certain things different or better, I still would buy the car. People make a fuss over Al O's statement, but who really GAS, in the end, it's what put's a smile on your face.

This^ all that matters is the car you choose makes you happy.

only thing i thing teh ZL1 came up short on was the 1/4 after GM said it would do much better and I havent seen results that come close to waht GM said it would be able to do. But it is still an amazing vehicle

[Bad@ssCamaro]

Originally Posted by shaffe

yes lol, bc we had a rather lengthy argument about the same thing in another thread and when I felt i had brought enough info to the table, he stopped posting back to me. I also feel I have agreed with him on pretty much everything else he has posted. plus im taking a long lunch break and its giving me something to do at work hahaha

Ah, what the restless mind will do! It takes a lot for someone to admit they were wrong, and I'm sure he probably realizes it, but was not going to admit it over something as frivolous as that IMO. Enjoy your lunch.

[tnspd]

I like how the guy in the video said driving the mustang is like being a monkey on the end of a stick.......too funny!

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by shaffe

All I have been saying is that the numbers show that in 3 laps the GT500 was ahead for 2 of them, thus not a draw.

With regard only to the absolute number of faster lap times out of the three track laps that were run in the Motor Trend Comparison between the 2013 GT500 and the ZL1, the GT500 ran faster laps during the first two laps of the track testing and the ZL1 ran the faster lap time during the last lap of the track testing. Those are the facts with respect to the absolute number of faster laps out of the three laps that were run.

I don't think that people disagree with the first part of your statement that the GT500 ran two laps that were faster, and the ZL1 ran one lap that was faster. The disagreement lies in your conclusion, "thus not a draw."

I think that where the disagreement or confusion lies with respect to which vehicle had the better "results" is in which "results" one chooses to use. You appear to be using the absolute number of faster laps as the sole criteria in determining which vehicle performed better or had better "results" on the track. Many are not willing to and won't use only the number of faster laps as the sole criteria because they think that it's not adequate with regard to overall track performance to consider only a few raw lap times, and, therefore, they believe that a vehicle that doesn't have the greatest number of faster lap times in a given setting can have the better track "results."

Evidently, Motor Trend uses other other criteria, in addition to the number of faster laps, such as consistency, "well-controlled body motions, planted suspension, and unshakeable confidence" when determining which vehicle performs better on the track, and, hence, Motor Trend concluded that the track comparison was a draw, based on all of what they believe to be the relevant criteria.

If you want to look at only the number of faster lap times and conclude, based on that number alone, that the GT500 performed better on the track, that's your choice. Others, including Motor Trend, won't limit the criteria they use to determine the better "results" only to which vehicle has the greater number of faster lap times.

We can agree that because the GT500 ran two laps faster and the ZL1 ran one lap faster, that you believe, based on that particular number, that the GT500 "outperformed," or had better "results" than, the ZL1, or, in other words, that the GT500 performed better in the category of the number of faster laps out of the three laps that were run in the Motor Trend comparison.

If you state that the GT500 was faster on two out of the three laps, I doubt that many with argue with you. It's when one starts interpreting the overall "results" and drawing conclusions where disagreements may arise.

[IOMZL1]

Originally Posted by A-little-perspective

Hard lap after hard lap? As far as anyone knows, all that means is 3 laps. After that, it's anyones guess because there is no evidence to suggest otherwise.

Now, reality is that an actual ZL1, believe it or not, did suffer heat soak on a track. Another ZL1 did experience brake fade after a few laps during a track session. Impossible, I know. Apparently it did happen though.

Regarding the ring. Well, GM has said a lot about the ZL1. But, considering how underwhelming the ZL1 is over a 1/4 mile (compared to the press release), you naturally have to wonder if Aaron Link himself could get a production ZL1 (post QC hold?) around the ring even close to 7:40.

The heat soaked zl1 was modded. Hadn't heard about the brake fade so it must be impossible. I did hear about the gt500 brake fade so that is gospel.

If you ask some we never landed on the moon and there is no evidence good enough to prove otherwise. And when I close my eyes he world disappears.

[8cd03gro]

You're both cherry-picking, as is almost everyone else. One the one hand, the gt500 won the 3 lap race if that's what you want to call it. It posted both the fastest lap time and the fastest total time for 3 laps. However, it was slowing thanks to brake fade, so the results may indicate the zl1 would come out on top if the race were extended. On the other hand, this is only one of a multitude of magazine and real world match ups. Overall it seems the gt500 and zl1 are very evenly matched as far as outright performance goes on the track. That does not mean the gt500 is as easy to drive as the zl1 or as rewarding (subjective), but it does mean that as far as raw data is concerned, so far, the gt500 and zl1 are pretty even on the road course. If one doesn't skew the results to suit their opinions, it is blatantly obvious that neither one of these cars is the clear winner on track. The areas in which there are clear winners are daily drivability and acceleration.

[IOMZL1]

Don't be rediculous!

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

Yit is blatantly obvious that neither one of these cars is the clear winner on track. The areas in which there are clear winners are daily drivability and acceleration.

Yes, the 2013 GT500 will likely have faster times on tracks with long straights where horsepower is an advantage and the ZL1 will likely perform better on tracks with difficult curves and few long straights which favor handling. The GT500 is faster in straight line acceleration, and the ZL1 is better suited to daily driving on public streets and roads.