Ethanol 15 approved by EPA

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by Sc0rPs

Was better than your "I had a dream last night too" comment there bub.

The US version of it is crap, and using corn is nuts. If you do a little research you'll see Brazil has always been using it and all cars there have been designed to use it. It's caused massive increase in production and considered the world's first sustainable biofuel economy. With billions of investment being poured into it from major oil producers like Shell.

They actually use the sugar-can waste to produce it, and all vehicles are Flex fuel since 1976. They made these changes since the last fuel shortage, see they learned not just grumble and continue on as if it won't happen again.

So you know what they gained? They no longer import oil!!! Next time do some real research.

I know exactly what your talking about and we're not brazil. I love how all you tree huggers bring up brazil every time this subject comes up. As I said, if you would have read my post, Maybe they will get it right someday. I just hate to see the American people have to be the guinea pigs that have to pay until they do.

[Sc0rPs]

Originally Posted by motorhead

I know exactly what your talking about and we're not brazil. I love how all you tree huggers bring up brazil every time this subject comes up. As I said, if you would have read my post, Maybe they will get it right someday. I just hate to see the American people have to be the guinea pigs that have to pay until they do.

Nobody said the US is Brazil, but it is a country that switched over and vastly benefited from it. They're exporting bio-fuels now! In fact, they're not even in nor have been in a recession.

But oh no let's not use them to see how it's done right as you say. All your posts were preaching of how the sky is falling backed up with nothing. I'm showing you an entire country with plenty of facts. So how are the Amercian people guinea pigs when the Brazilians did it first?

Prevent yourself from name calling please, I am in no way a tree-hugger and don't give a rats arse if the half the planet burns. Seriously, I don't! Do I call you a backwards misinformed hick preaching non-factual hysteria? Nope!

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by Sc0rPs

Nobody said the US is Brazil, but it is a country that switched over and vastly benefited from it. They're exporting bio-fuels now! In fact, they're not even in nor have been in a recession.

But oh no let's not use them to see how it's done right as you say. All your posts were preaching of how the sky is falling backed up with nothing. I'm showing you an entire country with plenty of facts. So how are the Amercian people guinea pigs when the Brazilians did it first?

Prevent yourself from name calling please, I am in no way a tree-hugger and don't give a rats arse if the half the planet burns. Seriously, I don't! Do I call you a backwards misinformed hick preaching non-factual hysteria? Nope!

First off none of my post preached of the sky falling, and I do believe you were the one that started with the name calling by saying I was clueless. I like to have civil conversations with civil minded people ,but when I get attacked I can't help myself. I will be the bigger man and say I'm sorry if you would like to keep having this conversation without the name calling. Sorry that I feel as strongly about this topic as you do but in the opposite direction.

[its a syn]

anyone know what the octane rating will be for E15? Here in Iowa E10 is 89 octane as compared to 87 for regular. Big selling point here is it is about 10 cents cheaper than regular,and no need for a can of fuel anti-freeze. You sacrifice about 2 mpg so it is ceaper to run. They have E85 here also and it run very cheap. I haven't owned any cars that can use this, I hear you have to watch the prices close because of the trade off in mpg. The gas corrosion happening sound like methanol not ethanol. helping the american farmer and oil independance sound like a win to me.

[Sc0rPs]

Originally Posted by motorhead

First off none of my post preached of the sky falling, and I do believe you were the one that started with the name calling by saying I was clueless. I like to have civil conversations with civil minded people ,but when I get attacked I can't help myself. I will be the bigger man and say I'm sorry if you would like to keep having this conversation without the name calling. Sorry that I feel as strongly about this topic as you do but in the opposite direction.

Thank you and I apologize too, and would actually like to hear your thoughts and have an adult debate as well.

Now to be clear, the point I am making is Brazil is the first place to have experimented mixing fuels. Which by using sugar-cane waste it does not threaten food supply cost increases.

The nation now benefits by not only ending importing foreign oil but now exporting ethanol. I believe it's something like 30% that's all produced. Since regulations from the 1970's shortage and resulting gas prices they made a bold move and it's now paying off huge for them. How can you deny that?

I do agree with you that using actual corn for ethanol is nuts, the result is an increase in the cost of food & animal feed. Plus an almost half-arsed method of implementing this stuff which can only cause some.. hesitation.

I would also like to add that I am not 100% on ethanol, I really don't think I would pour that stuff into my ride until I know someone with a Camaro that has been, or what it will take to do so.

What I am 100% on is choice, it should be up to you and only you if you want to use whatever grade of gasoline, ethanol or even full blown battery electric. With the proper and real facts given about each.

What I hate is the crap said on TV on how this will be sooo bad for us but they never point to any factual data showing it. The 'scare' tactics is what pisses me off.

[its a syn]

I've been running cornpone in my vehicles for years, have not had any ethanol related problems. My 04 Cavalier just turned over172,000 on it with nothing but corn squeezins most internal engine work i have done to it is change oil every 3,000 and changed spark plugs at 100,000!! Camaro is running fine on it also. It has 13,000 on it, and get 29 mpg when I don't get on it. So hard to do though!!!

[v6sonoma]

E10 has screwed up my motorcycle twice. If they force E15 on me I'll sell the damn thing because I'm tired of paying $300 to have the damn thing fixed. If they want to help offer straight gas at the pump along with it and charge more for the straight gas. I'll pay for it. I pay more for 93 for my SS and I'd pay more not to have ethanol in my bike. The cars on the road today were not all designed to run it so why should they be forced to.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by Sc0rPs

Thank you and I apologize too, and would actually like to hear your thoughts and have an adult debate as well.

Now to be clear, the point I am making is Brazil is the first place to have experimented mixing fuels. Which by using sugar-cane waste it does not threaten food supply cost increases.

The nation now benefits by not only ending importing foreign oil but now exporting ethanol. I believe it's something like 30% that's all produced. Since regulations from the 1970's shortage and resulting gas prices they made a bold move and it's now paying off huge for them. How can you deny that?

I do agree with you that using actual corn for ethanol is nuts, the result is an increase in the cost of food & animal feed. Plus an almost half-arsed method of implementing this stuff which can only cause some.. hesitation.

I would also like to add that I am not 100% on ethanol, I really don't think I would pour that stuff into my ride until I know someone with a Camaro that has been, or what it will take to do so.

What I am 100% on is choice, it should be up to you and only you if you want to use whatever grade of gasoline, ethanol or even full blown battery electric. With the proper and real facts given about each.

What I hate is the crap said on TV on how this will be sooo bad for us but they never point to any factual data showing it. The 'scare' tactics is what pisses me off.

It looks to me that we both agree that something needs to be done ,and I'm all for that. I just don't think we're there yet ,and the government is forcing it before it's ready. I just don't want to see us pay for a big mistake. Also what about the pollution from producing corn ethanol. It sounds like some nasty stuff.

[alrox]

Originally Posted by Number 3

So just to play devil's advocate, does this mean you don't support energy independance?

It has been generally proven that turning corn into fuel burns more energy to produce/transport the end product than to just use the regular old fuel to begin with. It's wasteful. This country will never be 'energy independent'. It's a hot topic issue such as abortion; forever talk, no change to keep you distracted.

Originally Posted by Number 3

I really wonder how much thought went in to the impact on small engines. Of course if you want to start a nice conspiracy, you could go with the fact that this will cause such high rates of repair on older (read that poluting) cars that it will get them off the road.

I support the right for the consumer to choose his own fuel. Have an E0 pump and an E10/E15 pump and let the consumer choose. Even if the E10/E15 blend is cheaper most will choose E0.

Originally Posted by Number 3

But just think of what all the new lawn mower, yard equipment and generator sales along with repair or retrofitting old cars will do for the economy (sarcasm if you couldn't tell)

Sounds like breaking perfectly good equipment so people already in the largest amount of credit debt ever can buy more things they don't need.

Originally Posted by Number 3

And motorhead, CAFE will have far more impact on your point than Ethanol. And a lot sooner too.

The unrealistic CAFE policies are going to be delayed after 2012.

Originally Posted by Number 3

ALMS is running E85 if I'm not mistaken. So if the C6R can run Ethanol, it can't be all bad.

The average consumer will not endorse cars that require you to fill them up 33-50% sooner due to E85's poor MPG. Current flexfuel cars only exist because of the government loophole in CAFE regarding them. They are an empty gesture to a broken government.

[Sc0rPs]

Originally Posted by motorhead

It looks to me that we both agree that something needs to be done ,and I'm all for that. I just don't think we're there yet ,and the government is forcing it before it's ready. I just don't want to see us pay for a big mistake. Also what about the pollution from producing corn ethanol. It sounds like some nasty stuff.

Not sure how the corn is produced, but allowing it to decay would make sense... so stick it into big tanks that accelerate the process maybe? Still right there with you about using corn.

Is using ethanol being forced in some areas?? That's a load of BS is true, even in Brazil you still have the choice to buy pure gas.

However let's not worry about pollution, the amount caused by exploring, drilling, piping, trucking, shipping, refining & distributing pretty much has anything beat.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by Sc0rPs

Not sure how the corn is produced, but allowing it to decay would make sense... so stick it into big tanks that accelerate the process maybe? Still right there with you about using corn.

Is using ethanol being forced in some areas?? That's a load of BS is true, even in Brazil you still have the choice to buy pure gas.

However let's not worry about pollution, the amount caused by exploring, drilling, piping, trucking, shipping, refining & distributing pretty much has anything beat.

I know I don't sound like it ,but the way I've been trying to look at it is, what we already went through with getting rid of lead in gas. Although it's not as big of deal as this, it did impact many cars. But in the end we got through it. I hope the transition is a slow one that lets people have a chance to get caught up.
Sorry we started off on the wrong foot. It was good talking to you. I have to step away from the computer for awhile.

Hope you got the worlds fuel supply problems figured out by the time I get back.

[Badbubba]

Couple of things, not enough water supply in US to support e100 usage in all vehicles. It takes 9 to 15 gallon of water for the crops to obtain 1 gallon of bio fuel. Read some of the articles published in Motor Trend Magazine for cited sources, gives very good incite from "well" to wheel for fuels. We'll be using more fuel due to less gas mileage, at least that's the case in my vehicles, and evaporation. Ethanol evaporates quicker than petro. Yes I know, sealed evap systems in cars, but what about your lawn mower, quad, dirt bike, boat and that 5 gallon gas can that looks like it could explode at anytime from the internal pressure from evaporaton. Also, since the introduction to 10%, debris in the carb float bowl is now present. Not sure if is directly from the fuel blend or from the ethanol deteriorating the tank, hoses, etc. One last rant, what happens to the octane rating after some of the ethanol evaporates. Is the higher octane of ethanol factored into the fuels R+M/2 method for the blended fuel? If so, for 87 octane, you would have 10% of 109 octane for ethanol and 90% of 84.5 octane for petro, thus 87 average octane. Now evaporate the ethanol and there you have it, low octane fuel.

[Sc0rPs]

Originally Posted by Badbubba

Couple of things, not enough water supply in US to support e100 usage in all vehicles. It takes 9 to 15 gallon of water for the crops to obtain 1 gallon of bio fuel. Read some of the articles published in Motor Trend Magazine for cited sources, gives very good incite from "well" to wheel for fuels. We'll be using more fuel due to less gas mileage, at least that's the case in my vehicles, and evaporation. Ethanol evaporates quicker than petro. Yes I know, sealed evap systems in cars, but what about your lawn mower, quad, dirt bike, boat and that 5 gallon gas can that looks like it could explode at anytime from the internal pressure from evaporaton. Also, since the introduction to 10%, debris in the carb float bowl is now present. Not sure if is directly from the fuel blend or from the ethanol deteriorating the tank, hoses, etc. One last rant, what happens to the octane rating after some of the ethanol evaporates. Is the higher octane of ethanol factored into the fuels R+M/2 method for the blended fuel? If so, for 87 octane, you would have 10% of 109 octane for ethanol and 90% of 84.5 octane for petro, thus 87 average octane. Now evaporate the ethanol and there you have it, low octane fuel.

Not sure how much actual fresh water will be required, doesn't rain help out in lowering additional water requirements? Though that can be said for about anything, it takes power to harness power.

Oil sands is pretty brutal as well, requires heated water and plenty of oil required. So price on everything.

I don't know about the other questions, does corn actually evaporate faster than gasoline? I would think they mix well enough not to do that.

Other points maybe look at countries already using ethanol is wider areas and check how it's working out?

[LS 1st gen]

Yeah guys....pointing your finger and yelling "OBAMA!" is gonna fix everything. You just keep doing that. Meanwhile the rest of us living in the real world will actually do some research.