check engine light

[Rip]

Originally Posted by GARYSSS

I think everyone is way over reacting to starting the car and letting it heat up 1 or 2 times a month during storage. If cold start up is not good for your car, everytime you start it all winter long is hurting it no matter how far or long your driving it. So if you use your car everyday for work and it's gets cold while your working 8 hours, you are starting it cold twice a day which is doing 60 times more damage a month than this guy is. Plus if what your saying is true, you should never jump in the car to run to the bank or store if it's only a mile or so away because your only driving for like 3 minutes each way and your not getting up temp no more than letting it idle for 15 minutes. I'm sure many people drive less than 5 miles to work everyday. If your getting moisture in your oil and fuel from this so are whole lot of others including you if you have ever run to the store and went back home on a cold morning. JMO

Actually, no, that's not what anyone has said.

[dreamst8]

Odd.. mine is a daily driver. Started mine Monday a.m., used the remote start, heard the typical loud exhaust when its cold (garaged) and a few seconds later the car just shut off.. Had to start with the key and check engine light was on. OnStar ran a diagnostic, but it only had a history from a misfire and something else related to electronics...was already going to dealer for something else, had them look at it, reset and tripped immediately again.. so goin in next Tuesday for a checkup..

FOLLOW UP: Dealer reprogrammed ECM< was advised there was a recall related to rough idle<check engine trip. All is ok now.. took about an hour visit...

[jmaryt]

Originally Posted by Redskinfan72

In order to protect my car for winter I bring in a Witch doctor who performs an elaborate series of rituals...Only runs me like $1000.00...

i got a"plastic jesus" ridin' shotgun on the dash!...helps!

[jmaryt]

Originally Posted by Rip

If you're not actually driving it, it isn't getting up to the proper temperature. Sitting at idle won't do it, even driving it at low speeds or low RPMs usually won't.

well i'm NOT doing that!..the car is brought up to approx 200 degrees,and held at a steady 2000 r.p.m's for around 10 to 15 minutes or so!..i could be wrong,but that should be "hot" enough to evaporate any water,but i gotta tell ya!.why should the car have any water in the oil in the first place?..your talkin' a "sealed" system,so how did it get in there?..condensation?..water in the gas?
probable!..water in the oil?..unless it was introduced into the crankcase upon fill up at a dealer,or the factory!..dunno!

[jmaryt]

Originally Posted by TooCool5

Running rough probably = water in the fuel, add dry gas.

yeah!..i put some in!..i believe it "caught" some small particles of dirt in the #1
cylinder.that's what the code points to!..figure water in the gas,or sh**ty fuel.
dealer believes,and i tend to agree,dirt in the injector...if i don't "lose" the light,it will definitely see the dealer...should go away though,because it is running super smooth now,however the "moron" light is still solid,but NOT flashing!..the gas really 'sucks" these days!

[jmaryt]

Originally Posted by GARYSSS

I think everyone is way over reacting to starting the car and letting it heat up 1 or 2 times a month during storage. If cold start up is not good for your car, everytime you start it all winter long is hurting it no matter how far or long your driving it. So if you use your car everyday for work and it's gets cold while your working 8 hours, you are starting it cold twice a day which is doing 60 times more damage a month than this guy is. Plus if what your saying is true, you should never jump in the car to run to the bank or store if it's only a mile or so away because your only driving for like 3 minutes each way and your not getting up temp no more than letting it idle for 15 minutes. I'm sure many people drive less than 5 miles to work everyday. If your getting moisture in your oil and fuel from this so are whole lot of others including you if you have ever run to the store and went back home on a cold morning. JMO

what you say is essentially correct,however what these guys are specifically referring to is the fact that IF you start the car in colder weather,then the "smart play" is to just run it for minute or two,and THEN begin driving it to get it to "operating temperature" as QUICkLY AS POSSIBLE to KEEP the damage,(if any) TO A MINIMUM!..i am NOT in a position to DRIVE the vehicle,therefore,my ONLY option is to get the r.p.m's up and get it "hot" that way...as far as water in the oil?..i am not sure about that!..it's a sealed system,and there shouldn't be any water in the oil!....water in the gas is far more likely in my view!...just sayin!

[jmaryt]

Originally Posted by hot ss

i bet the rough run, is fouled plugs. in startup, the car is crazy rich.
at my shop, we let cars idle to temp, then drive very nicely around the block
and park up front. we refuse to rev out or bad customer cars.
too many short starts can really hurt a car.
my buddies bodyshop had to spend over 1k to change the plugs in a mercedes cause it was short started too many times.

yeah!..the 'code" points to #1 cylinder as confirmed by onstar,and corroborated
from the code number by the dealer!..the dealer indicated that it "could " be a fouled plug,but they thought it was unlikely,however,STILL a possibility that cannot be ruled out!..it's runnin' much smoother now,so i believe it was 'dirt" related,and involved the injector.

[C586]

Even if you get it up to temp a cold start is a cold start. If you dont need the car dont start it. You wont get flat spots unless its sitting for a year or so. If you store it for the winter get some fuel treatment and a battery tender and leave it alone til you take it out for summer.

[jmaryt]

Originally Posted by C586

Even if you get it up to temp a cold start is a cold start. If you dont need the car dont start it. You wont get flat spots unless its sitting for a year or so. If you store it for the winter get some fuel treatment and a battery tender and leave it alone til you take it out for summer.

i don't disagree with that analogy,however,it must be noted that "lubrication" is ALMOST instantaneous upon start up under ANY type of weather conditions,and
yes!..although there IS wear on the engine components,the car IS built to be started and driven,OR run...the true issue here is starting a "cold" engine,and NOT allowing it to reach operating temperature.yes!.again minute amounts of wear is a given,but again,this is true of EVERY time a vehicle is started,
REGARDLESS of the air temperatures...what is infinitely more harmful is starting any engine,and then shutting it down BEFORE reaching a operational
temp,and shutting it down abruptly.if it can be determined upon startup that you have have established "proper'" oil pressure,then all bets are off,and you are good to go,and of course,MOST people don't have an oil pressure gauge to establish this.it's nice to have one,but you can get by WITHOUT one.just make sure you have a "full" sump of oil in the engine before starting it...thanks for your input!

[jmaryt]

Originally Posted by jmaryt

i don't disagree with that analogy,however,it must be noted that "lubrication" is ALMOST instantaneous upon start up under ANY type of weather conditions,and
yes!..although there IS wear on the engine components,the car IS built to be started and driven,OR run...the true issue here is starting a "cold" engine,and NOT allowing it to reach operating temperature.yes!.again minute amounts of wear is a given,but again,this is true of EVERY time a vehicle is started,
REGARDLESS of the air temperatures...what is infinitely more harmful is starting any engine,and then shutting it down BEFORE reaching a operational
temp,and shutting it down abruptly.if it can be determined upon startup that you have have established "proper'" oil pressure,then all bets are off,and you are good to go,and of course,MOST people don't have an oil pressure gauge to establish this.it's nice to have one,but you can get by WITHOUT one.just make sure you have a "full" sump of oil in the engine before starting it...thanks for your input!

also it should be noted that every time you start ANY vehicles engine,wear is taking place,because the oil pump NEEDS a split second to get "pressure",and lubrication to ALL engine parts.this is indicative of every vehicle made,and has ALWAYS held true.this will NEVER change because of the inherent design of the internal combustion engine.this fact is applicable to any car in any weather condition,and EVERY time any car is started.cannot do anything about this,so one must try to use the best grade oil in any engine.it is possible that "synthetics" MAY be better for an engine over the long term,and help to prevent wear better than conventional oil,however the split second lag time of the oil pump to provide oil pressure will be the same with ANY lubricant used,so therefore WEAR will STILL occur upon start up,regardless of weather conditions,and once again,EVERY time the engine is started...also just to reiterate,the vehicle is started very infrequently,so actual wear is reduced as opposed to a (d.d.),because it has simply been sitting,and NOT frequently being started and driven.

[MLL67RSSS]

Where does the water come from? The humidity in the air. Just like condesation forms on a cold drink glass, moisture can form inside the block due to the temp. differential of the warm/cold parts. In the old days the crankcase was vented to atmosphere and moisture could escape. In a new car it's not. The only way moisture can escape is through the PVC system so it gets burned up in the cylinders. In a new closed crankcase car sitting idling the the PVC valve is closed. Under certian DRIVING conditions; vacuum level, engine load, letting off throttle, the PVC valve opens pulling any moisture laden air out of the crankcase and burns it up in the cylinders. So if it just sits idling and isn't driven, any moisture is going to stay in the crankcase. It can condense and water down the oil. If you get it hot enough the water in the oil will vaporize but if just recondenses and falls back in the oil if it never gets pulled through the cylinders and burned. So each time you're just accumulating a little more water in the oil. IMO more harmful that just NOT starting it if it isn't going to be driven for the few weeks it's stored.

Another thing. Oil can get acidic from blow-by/other contaminates it accumulates. So I always put nice fresh clean oil in right before I park mine. Don't need any acid etching the parts!

[pennor]

Where does the water come from?

Water is a product of combustion. That's why you'll see water vapor coming from the tail pipe on a cold morning. Burn any hudro carbon and you get water, CO2, and a few other by products. If you were to convert to buring pure hydrogen, and it can be done, the ONLY byproduct from the tail pipe is water vapor.

[Rip]

Originally Posted by jmaryt

well i'm NOT doing that!..the car is brought up to approx 200 degrees,and held at a steady 2000 r.p.m's for around 10 to 15 minutes or so!..i could be wrong,but that should be "hot" enough to evaporate any water,but i gotta tell ya!.why should the car have any water in the oil in the first place?..your talkin' a "sealed" system,so how did it get in there?..condensation?..water in the gas?
probable!..water in the oil?..unless it was introduced into the crankcase upon fill up at a dealer,or the factory!..dunno!

It's partially condensation, it's also a byproduct of burning hydrocarbons. Don't even pay attention to what your engine temp gauge reads, look at your oil temperature. It needs to get above 212. Now, doing this on occasion isn't an issue - as long as you're also driving it regularly. It's when this is the only thing you are doing that it becomes an issue. This is the main reason why you see a lot of older, low-mileage cars with more issues than those that are driven harder and for longer commutes.

Your best bet for storing it is going to be to put a good fuel stabilizer in it, run it long enough so that you know the treated fuel is completely through the fuel line, and park it until you're ready to start driving it again.

[jmaryt]

Originally Posted by MLL67RSSS

Where does the water come from? The humidity in the air. Just like condesation forms on a cold drink glass, moisture can form inside the block due to the temp. differential of the warm/cold parts. In the old days the crankcase was vented to atmosphere and moisture could escape. In a new car it's not. The only way moisture can escape is through the PVC system so it gets burned up in the cylinders. In a new closed crankcase car sitting idling the the PVC valve is closed. Under certian DRIVING conditions; vacuum level, engine load, letting off throttle, the PVC valve opens pulling any moisture laden air out of the crankcase and burns it up in the cylinders. So if it just sits idling and isn't driven, any moisture is going to stay in the crankcase. It can condense and water down the oil. If you get it hot enough the water in the oil will vaporize but if just recondenses and falls back in the oil if it never gets pulled through the cylinders and burned. So each time you're just accumulating a little more water in the oil. IMO more harmful that just NOT starting it if it isn't going to be driven for the few weeks it's stored.

Another thing. Oil can get acidic from blow-by/other contaminates it accumulates. So I always put nice fresh clean oil in right before I park mine. Don't need any acid etching the parts!

it sounds logical,however my thoughts are taking me that IF the engine CAN be put under "load"..ie: (higher r.pm. than idle)..then the condensation (if any) will be evaporated by reaching "operating temp" and kept there for approx 15 minutes or so...am wondering if the car is started very infrequently anyway that "changing" the oil upon releasing from storage will "mitigate" the problem,as the (possible offending water)..WILL be removed from the crankcase anyway,or of course,the simple solution of just driving it,and keeping the engine "hot" for a LONGER period of time.