2011 Chevrolet Camaro SS Convertible vs 2011 Ford Mustang GT

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by 2010-1SS-IBM

STFU, troll. It's a stupid reason to bitch about a car. I don't give a crap how clever you think you are.



It's not flawed to me, but I don't have dwarf hands nor hold the shifter like you hold your boyfriends cock. It's a regular steering wheel and shifter; neither is wrapped in barbed wire and electrified. Don't talk to me like I don't drive my own car and know.

And I tired of dilweeds like you popping out of the wookwork to defend every weird and unlikely-seeming flaw a crappy reviewer can come up with to dis a car, just because they are dis-ing the Camaro. I don't recall steering wheel depth and shifter shape being listed in automobile specs, I've never seen car guys drooling over the steering wheel depth or the shifter shape, and I've never seen a chick get hot after looking at the car's steering wheel depth and shifter shape.

That these guys say it's a fatal flaw, when it so obviously isn't, is hilarious. The 2010 Mustang had a fatal flaw, a massively underpowered engine compared to both the Camaro and Challenger. A spherical shifter knob with the sides flattened is not a fatal flaw.

And it would be nice to read a comparison of the new Camaro convertible that had more to it than teen angst and a raging boner for the Mustang, don't you think?

It's a review. It's all about their views and opinions or it would just be a spec sheet. Some people won't like your car as much as another. Who cares? It's not worth having a hissy fit every time your car doesn't come in first in an article.

[2010-1SS-IBM]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

It's a review. It's all about their views and opinions or it would just be a spec sheet. Some people won't like your car as much as another. Who cares? It's not worth having a hissy fit every time your car doesn't come in first in an article.

Can it. I don't care who came first or second, I care that the review about the all new Camaro convertible said almost nothing about the car.

Do you understand? I swear, you Mustang fanboys are delusional to the point where now you defend terrible reviews just because it's your precious Mustang in them.

[8cd03gro]

Like I said. It's a review. It's based on opinion. Obviously you don't agree and that's great. Again, who cares what their opinions are if you don't agree? If you like your car and are happy with your purchase, their review isn't going to change that, but it's their job to find things they do and don't like about the car and write about them. I would say exactly the same thing to the mustang guys in the reverse situation. Top Gear is the perfect example of this. They rag on cars for the dumbest reasons and opinions, but that's their job. If they just talked about 1/4 mile times and specs they would be boring and out of business. Take their opinions for what they are, opinions and that's all.

Now if you still want to pout and pound your fists because they liked the mustang better, feel free. I'm not going to act like a 13 year old with you and start calling you gay and spouting insults.

[2010-1SS-IBM]

Again, I don't care what their opinions are, I care that they spent half their comparison talking about 2 very minor parts of the car. Yes, Top Gear does bash on cars for small/unusual things, but they still put the car through it's paces on film. Jeremy Clarkson doesn't start a review off by going off about the sun visors, and then leave.

If I cared much about what they thought, I would have put more than a sentence and a half in my post.

[Amenti]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

What kind of tire did they switch to? I find it hard to believe the same tire in a different diameter would make that much of a difference. However, switching to a much stickier tire would do the trick.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118135

I believe ROD1 was using "normal" sized Drag Radials and switched to a 3-inch smaller Drag Radial to emulate something close to 3.73 gearing.

As far as whether that is going to make a big difference, it will, without question, improve handling and response by reducing unsprung weight which is a problem for the camaro and gives it that "sluggish" feeling in the turns (even though, in reality, it performs quite well compared to the mustang); but, other than the reduction in rotational mass, it's kind of a moot point when you're talking about the track.

As an auto V6, I start with a lower 3.27 gear ratio, rather than the 3.45 gear ratio in the manual (ROD1 is also an automatic). That might have something to do with the difference in 1/4 mile times a tire-diameter reduction might make. BigDan, I couldn't tell you why it didn't make much difference on your GT500 to go down two inches in diameter.

I'm just a bench racer looking to squeeze more outta his V6, though. The stock wheels and tire combinations are definitely a place to start, since there's quite a lot to lose there and performance to be gained. The Pedder's Camaro went down to a 19 inch rim, wider tires and smaller diameter to help improve handling.

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by Amenti

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118135

I believe ROD1 was using "normal" sized Drag Radials and switched to a 3-inch smaller Drag Radial to emulate something close to 3.73 gearing.

As far as whether that is going to make a big difference, it will, without question, improve handling and response by reducing unsprung weight which is a problem for the camaro and gives it that "sluggish" feeling in the turns (even though, in reality, it performs quite well compared to the mustang); but, other than the reduction in rotational mass, it's kind of a moot point when you're talking about the track.

As an auto V6, I start with a lower 3.27 gear ratio, rather than the 3.45 gear ratio in the manual (ROD1 is also an automatic). That might have something to do with the difference in 1/4 mile times a tire-diameter reduction might make. BigDan, I couldn't tell you why it didn't make much difference on your GT500 to go down two inches in diameter.

I'm just a bench racer looking to squeeze more outta his V6, though. The stock wheels and tire combinations are definitely a place to start, since there's quite a lot to lose there and performance to be gained. The Pedder's Camaro went down to a 19 inch rim, wider tires and smaller diameter to help improve handling.

Doin' a little digging I found that he also added skinnies in the front and picked up almost 2,000DA between those two runs by switching to ATCO (known to be a very fast track). That explains why the difference is so much bigger than I expected. Smaller tires/wheels will make a difference for sure, but don't expect a difference like that from just smaller wheels and tires.

For reference:

Tires used on the pass: Hoosier DR, Skinnies
Performance Mods (if any): Injen Cai, ARH headers, SS axleback, Trifecta tune
Transmission: Auto
Category submitted for: Bolt-ons
R/T............ ..206
60'............. 1.950
330'........... 5.606
660'........... 8.623
660’ mph... 80.75
1320'.......... 13.420
1320’ mph… 103.22
Name of the track: Atco NJ
Date of pass: 11-27-10
Weather conditions (include Density Altitude, if known): DA -931

Tires used on the pass: Hoosier DR
Performance Mods (if any): Injen Cai, ARH headers, MRT V2, axleback, Trifecta tune
Transmission: Auto
Category submitted for: Bolt ons
R/T............ .683
60'............. 2.041
330'........... 5.836
660'........... 8.945
660’ mph... 79.16
1320'.......... 13.861
1320’ mph… 101.02
Name of the track: Empire Dragway (was new york international)
Date of pass: 6-30-10
Weather conditions (include Density Altitude, if known): DA Edit: 1035

On a side note, I found this run extremely impressive:

Tires used on the pass: Hoosier DR, Skinnies
Performance Mods (if any): 125 Shot Nitrous, Injen Cai, ARH headers, SS axleback, Trifecta tune
Transmission: Auto
Category submitted for: Power adders
R/T............ .548
60'............. 1.716
330'........... 4.957
660'........... 7.680
660’ mph... 90.76
1320'.......... 12.015
1320’ mph… 113.03
Name of the track: Atco NJ
Date of pass: 11-27-10
Weather conditions (include Density Altitude, if known): DA -935

That's pretty bad ass to almost touch 11's in the 6er with juice.

[Amenti]

BTW.....

Personally, I like the steering wheel in my Camaro. My thumbs rest right on the grooves like they're supposed to. I must grip the wheel different than everyone on the MotorTrend staff, because my hands never hurt after hours of driving. My hand drapes over the top of the wheel comfortably when I drive one-handed. It fits me quite well.

I'd probably be less-enamored with the shifter; but, I have an automatic. I actually find that the shape of the shifter complements the rare and effortless movement of an automatic shifter.

I'm not so sure about the GM rep's excuse about the top leaking in the review; but, hey, if it's a pre-prod vehicle.....

[Amenti]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

Doin' a little digging I found that he also added skinnies in the front and picked up almost 2,000DA between those two runs by switching to ATCO (known to be a very fast track). That explains why the difference is so much bigger than I expected. Smaller tires/wheels will make a difference for sure, but don't expect a difference like that from just smaller wheels and tires.

That's pretty bad ass to almost touch 11's in the 6er with juice.

Oh ya, almost in 11's with the V6 is crazy. But ya, I wasn't expecting quite the same kind of gains.

Since the margins between Mustangs and Camaros averages out to be fairly small, a .1 or .2 second gain in the quarter by changing the tire selection would even things up quite nicely or even lean things closer to the camaro's advantage.

Alas, since GM did not offer smaller tires, such things could not be considered stock for the Camaro; whereas, Ford's various tire, brake and gearing options are all considered stock. Makes for a wide range of performance possibilities for the Mustang.

[shawn18]

There is no wrong answer when it comes to choosing between these two cars. Either you like the ugly Mustang or the Badazz Looking Camaro................Now I am sure there are some Ford guys who think just the opposite as myself but...................Thats what makes the world go 'round.

[Impact]

Originally Posted by RLHMARINES

It's not the weight that's killing the Camaro's time, it's the engines break-in torque management on the drive train that gm has on it's cars. The Camaro gets much better after anywhere from 1500-3000 miles on the odometer as an engine break-in safeguard to the drivetrain. I would like to see how many tenth's of a second the Camaro picks up after break-in on a long term test or with a car that's been broken in.

You realize the Mustang isn't broken in neither? If the Camaro gets faster by being broken in so does the Mustang, it's just logic. So are you saying let the Camaro get broken in and faster yet keep the Stang unbroken in? haha. The Camaro lost, deal with it. I have a V6 Camaro and I don't make silly excuses when my V6 Camaro loses against V6 Stangs because I don't give a crap. I enjoy my car and that is all that matters to me.

Some of you guys are talking down the the Mustang posters for liking this comparison but you realize you dislike it because the Camaro came in second. How about all the other comparisons where the Camaro came out on top? It seems you only like something when your car wins and hate it when it loses and say it's wrong lol. I remember when Motor Trend tested the 2010 Camaro and 2010 Mustang and said the Camaro was better and you guys were praising Motor Trend and hated Car and Driver because they choose the 2010 Mustang. Flash forward a year later and Motor Trend says the 2011 Mustang is better then the 2011 Camaro and you hate them now? Car and Drive drove the SS Camaro a few tenths faster then the 2011 Mustang and you started liking them again even though you said they were hacks in 2010?

So apparently someone is great if they choose your car but are hacks when they don't. Some of you guys are pathetic and act like children.

[08-G35s/6MT]

Originally Posted by Impact

You realize the Mustang isn't broken in neither? If the Camaro gets faster by being broken in so does the Mustang, it's just logic. So are you saying let the Camaro get broken in and faster yet keep the Stang unbroken in? haha. The Camaro lost, deal with it. I have a V6 Camaro and I don't make silly excuses when my V6 Camaro loses against V6 Stangs because I don't give a crap. I enjoy my car and that is all that matters to me.

Some of you guys are talking down the the Mustang posters for liking this comparison but you realize you dislike it because the Camaro came in second. How about all the other comparisons where the Camaro came out on top? It seems you only like something when your car wins and hate it when it loses and say it's wrong lol. I remember when Motor Trend tested the 2010 Camaro and 2010 Mustang and said the Camaro was better and you guys were praising Motor Trend and hated Car and Driver because they choose the 2010 Mustang. Flash forward a year later and Motor Trend says the 2011 Mustang is better then the 2011 Camaro and you hate them now? Car and Drive drove the SS Camaro a few tenths faster then the 2011 Mustang and you started liking them again even though you said they were hacks in 2010?

So apparently someone is great if they choose your car but are hacks when they don't. Some of you guys are pathetic and act like children.

Like I said in an earlier post.... +1

[ffrcobra_65]

Originally Posted by Mike-D

Hate to say it but the video dont lie. Mustang beat it in both races. Chevy will have to step it up again.

that has always been the case FOREVER. The Camaro rules the day and the Mustang rules the week. Same old story. Sucks for the fanboys but if you love cars and not the brand, it doesn't matter, you enjoy them both.

[08-G35s/6MT]

The ZL1 has a new properly good steering wheel(not some impractical one straight from a concept car) that works both in form and function, and a new shift knob. Which should help out the Camaro tremendously...

[porcupinekiller]

Originally Posted by shawn18

There is no wrong answer when it comes to choosing between these two cars. Either you like the ugly Mustang or the Badazz Looking Camaro................Now I am sure there are some Ford guys who think just the opposite as myself but...................Thats what makes the world go 'round.

You got it brother!! Same game different teams.
The fact that there are new 400+ HP Mustang and Camaro droptops to choose from in this day and age is pretty awesome!!