GAS PRICES GOING UP 5 CENTS IN GTA APRIL 2ND, 2011

[Red Rider]

But WHY is it going up? Anyone know?

[canadian ss]

It goes up because they tell us it will and we say we have no choice but to pay it. If we take a stand on it maybe make it a political topic, we might win? Or just go across the border and fill up.
We need to tell OPEC that we aren"t stupid because there is ALOT of supply and that even changes in weather shouldn't affect gas prices. If there was shortages, wouldn't we all pay the same at the station? It seems that it goes by demographic. The poorer a city, the cheaper the fuel.
We need to let our political leaders know that fuel prices are a big concern and it will be a deciding vote in every election. Thats probably the only way for the public to win?
If we go electric, you guessed it, elctricity rates will go up next! We need to take control.

[The Stig]

The idea of gas boycotts are not new. Be it, I don't think there have been any major movements since the 60's and 70's.

But the point of my post. Back in 2003 or 2004, whenever gas was really starting to come up again, an economist calculated that IF half of America decided not to buy gas for one day, then the oil industry would lose upwards of 10 million dollars.

And yes, those losses would be from 1 day of people not buying gas.

[canadian ss]

After doing a 1 day boy cot costing them 10 million would piss them off and they would just raise the price higher to teach us a lesson. If we can get politics involved I think it could open everyones eyes? It happened with the rising internet costs and cell phone contract prices till the gov't let other smaller phone companies in on the action causing price wars.

[Matster]

Originally Posted by canadian ss

It goes up because they tell us it will and we say we have no choice but to pay it. If we take a stand on it maybe make it a political topic, we might win? Or just go across the border and fill up.
We need to tell OPEC that we aren"t stupid because there is ALOT of supply and that even changes in weather shouldn't affect gas prices. If there was shortages, wouldn't we all pay the same at the station? It seems that it goes by demographic. The poorer a city, the cheaper the fuel.
We need to let our political leaders know that fuel prices are a big concern and it will be a deciding vote in every election. Thats probably the only way for the public to win?
If we go electric, you guessed it, elctricity rates will go up next! We need to take control.

I would agree, however there is a factor that you haven't taken into consideration. There is NO interest from the gov't side of things to regulate gas prices lower. Lower gas prices mean the gov't collects less tax revenue.

[Maddog78]

Originally Posted by Red Rider

But WHY is it going up? Anyone know?

www.peakoil.com
www.theoildrum.com

Get used to it. Nothing but up from here on out.
Easily 2 bucks a litre by the end of 2012.
Boycott all you want.
The Chinese and Indians will buy it.
Over 50,000 new vehicles a day hitting the road in those two countries.

[SQUALO]

Originally Posted by 2010victoryredss_ron

i think they need to hand out samples of vaseline when we fill up in Canada,,maybe it wont hurt so much......lol

NO! I can't afford the tax on Vaseline.

Originally Posted by Red Rider

But WHY is it going up? Anyone know?

BECAUSE IT CAN, AND NO ONE IS THERE TO STOP THEM!

Originally Posted by canadian ss

It goes up because they tell us it will and we say we have no choice but to pay it. If we take a stand on it maybe make it a political topic, we might win? Or just go across the border and fill up.
We need to tell OPEC that we aren"t stupid because there is ALOT of supply and that even changes in weather shouldn't affect gas prices. If there was shortages, wouldn't we all pay the same at the station? It seems that it goes by demographic. The poorer a city, the cheaper the fuel.
We need to let our political leaders know that fuel prices are a big concern and it will be a deciding vote in every election. Thats probably the only way for the public to win?
If we go electric, you guessed it, elctricity rates will go up next! We need to take control.

There's 2 elections this year 2011:
Federal in May
Provincial (Ontario) in October

EVERYONE: Start firing off the e-mails to your politicians...ALL OF THEM!

Originally Posted by Matster

I would agree, h
owever there is a factor that you haven't taken into consideration. There is NO interest from the gov't side of things to regulate gas prices lower. Lower gas prices mean the gov't collects less tax revenue.

God forbid they should help us out. I'm still trying to figure out where ALL that gas tax money is, that's suppossed to fix our roads.
Both levels of gov't are always crying about not having money, but they can blow billions of dollars on stupid elections, before it's time.



GOOD LUCK TO US ALL!
HAPPY & SAFE DRIVING EVERYONE!

[TJ91]

Originally Posted by jrhaus76

5 WHOLE cents... everyone sell your cars!!!

Says the American who pays less for the camaro, the gas, the insurance, oh and the tax!

As for us, who are actually paying, these prices are brutal. As a working student, its tough to pay for it all, and taking public transportation isnt any cheaper (done the math) plus its no fun either lol. You have to pay to play, but this is overboard, im going to ask for some vasoline next time. Dont want to know what its going to be in the Summer

The worst part is we really have no clue or justification for the rises at the pump
cant imagine how the europeans feel

[2010victoryredss_ron]

at first they blamed it on Libya.......well they only supply 2% of the WORLDS oil,, not Canadas....so i dont know the real reason, other than to gouge us..

[Ravirn]

Originally Posted by stieger

The idea of gas boycotts are not new. Be it, I don't think there have been any major movements since the 60's and 70's.

But the point of my post. Back in 2003 or 2004, whenever gas was really starting to come up again, an economist calculated that IF half of America decided not to buy gas for one day, then the oil industry would lose upwards of 10 million dollars.

And yes, those losses would be from 1 day of people not buying gas.

And those economists were wrong, then. And that view is STILL wrong, today.

Oil is a fungible commodity, like cash. A one day boycott won't do S**T to the oil companies. Why? Because you're still going to buy gas. If not one day, then the next. Fungibility is dynamically different from liquidity. Typing out a static calculation like that is just... wrong. The oil industry lose upwards of 10 million dollars? Why? Are people going to boycott going to work that day, too? Hardly.

A one-day boycott is laughable, and in the long run has NO discernable impact on the oil industry.

Now... if you can convince people to stop buying gas for 4 months (SIX months is actually a much better timeframe for a commodity like oil)... THEN you'd affect the oil & gas industry. And change would occur.

Until then, the boycotts going on will continue to have the influence they've had for the last 40 years. As in... very little, if any. Oil execs will express concern and "sympathize" with the average consumer to the press, and laugh their asses off in their offices.

The key is to promote sustained reduction in oil/gas consumption at the grass roots level. Does it cost me a lot to drive my SS? Yep. Which is why it's no longer my daily driver. Needless to say, my gas consumption has dropped dramatically.

Get enough people doing that... and yes, Big Oil will feel it.

[Maddog78]

Sell your gas guzzling Camaro and buy a Volt.
That will really show the oil companies.




Sorry, but it is laughable for people that drive the kind of cars that people on this web site drive to be complaining about gas prices.
You had to have known that the recent dip in prices when this Camaro first came out was an aberration. You should have known they would soon go up and they have. All the evidence was out there for those who wanted to look.

I love high hp big engine cars, too.
I fully expected gas to be this high at this time.
I fully expect it to be another 40 or 50 percent higher next year.

I don't complain. There is a finite supply and it is getting more expensive to get all the time. I believe in about 5 years time it is going to get serious.
Be happy now that you are getting cheap fuel.
It won't last.


http://earlywarn.blogspot.com/2010/1...-peak-oil.html
http://www.worldenergyoutlook.org/do...es_english.pdf

[SQUALO]

Originally Posted by Maddog78

Sell your gas guzzling Camaro and buy a Volt.
That will really show the oil companies.




Sorry, but it is laughable for people that drive the kind of cars that people on this web site drive to be complaining about gas prices.
You had to have known that the recent dip in prices when this Camaro first came out was an aberration. You should have known they would soon go up and they have. All the evidence was out there for those who wanted to look.

I love high hp big engine cars, too.
I fully expected gas to be this high at this time.
I fully expect it to be another 40 or 50 percent higher next year.

I don't complain. There is a finite supply and it is getting more expensive to get all the time. I believe in about 5 years time it is going to get serious.
Be happy now that you are getting cheap fuel.
It won't last.


http://earlywarn.blogspot.com/2010/1...-peak-oil.html
http://www.worldenergyoutlook.org/do...es_english.pdf

Nobody is compalining about our Camaro's using gas, especially the V8's, we're well ware of that.
Buying the Volt is not the answer, and it never will be...sorry GM but it's not the answer to the world's oil issues.

The reason for this thread was the unjustified spike in gas all at once.
We all have daily drivers, no matter what they may be, and they have to run on fuel.
We're just upset that they're is not REAL justification in fuel prices to spike the way they do, yet they don't drop in the same manner.
There's lots the oil companies and government can do to keep things stable, but they choose not to.

If even "half" the reasons used for fuel prices going up the way they do were true, I have no problem paying the price.
Realistically, the reasons are all bogus, because if they weren't, then the fuel prices should go UP & DOWN accordingly, based on oil price trading, but WE all know that doesn't happen, people aren't stupid, they pay attention more now then ever.

That's my rant, take it for what it's worth, but the stats done't lie.

[Maddog78]

http://autos.sympatico.ca/features/8...line-in-canada

I don't know where you live but gas prices went down where I live when crude dropped two years ago.
Oil cos. stopped drilling and oil workers got laid off. Supply and demand.
Funny enough SUV sales started to take off again about the same time.
6 months earlier the dealers couldn't give them away.
Most people in general are very short sighted.

Do you know how many Parliamentary Commissions there have been investigating gas prices in Canada over the years?
I think it is up to 6 or 7.
They have never found a single case of wrong doing. Not one.
It's supply and demand.
Read the article I linked to.

Like I said earlier Canadians (and Americans) can cry and whine all they want, it doesn't matter.
They are now competing with the Chinese etc. for the world's oil.
Fill up or don't fill up, it makes no difference.
The 60,000 new cars a day hitting the road in China and India will buy it.

[Maddog78]

Understanding the price of gasoline in Canada
Understanding crude oil prices and their tension-riddled relationship with gasoline pump prices

April 4th 2011, by Michael Goetz

Count yourself lucky if you don’t give a rat’s posterior about how gas pump prices are derived. Because if you do, like some of us, you’re set up for years of frustration. But understanding is achievable. So let’s get started.




World price, not a domestic price
“Canadian gas prices aren’t controlled in Canada; crude oil prices aren’t determined in Canada either,” notes Roger McKnight, the Senior Petroleum Analyst at En-Pro, a major Canadian energy consulting firm with over 1,400 North American clients.


So that’s the first building block to understudying the process — transportation fuel is fundamentally a global price, affected by certain domestic and local factors.




Crude oil pricing
Crude oil is the basic feedstock where we derive the various petroleum products.


A barrel of crude oil is defined as 42 US gallons. Different types of crude oil refine differently, but typically a barrel of crude oil will net about 40 percent gasoline and about 30 percent middle distillates (diesel, jet fuel, heating oil).


The remaining percentage is a collective of more specialized products, like asphalt and lubrication stock.


According to PetroCanada’s pie chart, we see that crude oil makes up about 48 percent of gasoline prices. Refining costs are pegged at 17 percent. Profit at 3 percent. Taxes differ according to region, but are approximated at 32 percent.


So basically half of gas pump prices is determined by the global price of crude.
“U.S. oil demand is not driving world oil prices. Driving world oil prices are places like China, which import nine and three quarters of a million barrels of oil a day.” – Jeff Rubin

West Texas Intermediate versus Brent
“The price of oil is higher than most North American motorists suspect,” notes Jeff Rubin, the ex-chief economist of CIBC World Markets investments, who recently wrote the best selling book, Why Your World is About to Get a Lot Smaller — Oil and the End of Globalization.


He adds that when you hear oil price news in the media, they’re usually talking about West Texas Intermediate (WTI) crude — a certain type oil “price settled” at Cushing, Oklahoma, and traded on the New York Mercantile Exchange.


“West Texas Intermediate has lost its role as a barometer of world oil demand, for almost a year now,” says Rubin.


“The new benchmark is the short-dated Brent futures, which is the price of North Sea oil. It’s been trading 10 to 15 dollars a barrel more than WTI since the beginning of the year. Feedstock for gasoline is 10 to 15 dollars a barrel more than the North American drivers would think, if they’re just listening to the radio.”


Rubin notes that the synthetic crude from Alberta’s tar sands go to Cushing via the TransCanada pipeline: “That stuff is heavy oil. Cushing is the only place were it can be refined.”


Because U.S oil demand has peaked and is relatively stagnate, inventory levels across North America, and especially at Cushing, are extremely high — to the point of glut. “I can't see how they can store any more,” says McKnight.


Implausible as it seems, all this inventory isn’t decreasing our gas pump prices, because, in the words of Jeff Rubin, “U.S. oil demand is not driving world oil prices. Driving world oil prices are places like China, which import nine and three quarters of a million barrels of oil a day. And that’s Brent oil.”


Most of the oil the U.S. uses is Brent oil anyway, from tankers arriving in New York or Louisiana.


WTI oil hasn’t been able to arbitrage (in this case, lower) world prices, because the oil is basically stuck in the middle of Oklahoma — a long way from China or India.


Notes Rubin: “When you hear we have high inventories, you presume it’s world inventory, but it’s actually mid-west refinery capacity… It’s a world oil price. Sure there are going to be discrepancies between markets between any moment in time, but a rising tide is lifting all boats. Triple digit prices (for barrels of crude) are going to make gas expensive all around the world, except in places like Saudi Arabia and Venezuela.”
“However misdirected, the price of crude is following emotion and intuition rather than fact.” – Roger McKnight

Speculators
Just as we begin to understand the levers of global oil supply and demand, consider this excerpt from the speech McKnight delivered recently at a major transportation conference in Toronto:


“By far the most important factor in today’s pricing theory is the involvement of the speculators and traders in both the financial and equity products. The daily movements of crude oil and its derivatives have virtually no relations to inventory levels, refinery runs or demand levels. However misdirected, the price of crude is following emotion and intuition rather than fact.”


Yikes.


McKnight says we only have to look at the current situation in Libya to get a feel of how this dynamic works: “Libya produces less than 2 percent of the global supply of crude, which is about 89 million barrels a day. For that (lost) portion, two percent, prices are going through the roof?”


Refinery Issues
Canadian consumers also must deal with supply issues in their local markets. They are only 15 refineries in Canada. Shell Canada shut down its Montreal refinery in last January, and the chances of another refinery opening in Canada is nil and nil.


McKnight says it costs about $100 million just for the paperwork, to propose a 400,000-barrel per day refinery. “Then it would take ten years and many billions to build it. You wouldn’t get a drop of product in ten years, but the specifications for gasoline, diesel, etc., will definitely change during that time. Why build then, when you can bring in gasoline from your refineries in China?”


McKnight notes that China has a glut of gasoline at the moment, and is currently California’s main gasoline supplier.


Refinery production can be hurky-jerky and effect supply, and therefore local prices. For example, refineries typically run a two-season schedule: heating oil and other products from May to September; gasoline from October to March. Refineries are shut down for those transitions.




Oh yeah: taxes
The more taxes built into pump price, the less sensitive is that price to world oil prices, notes Rubin, because it makes crude a smaller portion of the price. So we have that to be thankful for — our higher gas taxes have cushioned the crude oil price shock at the pumps.


He notes that $150 barrel oil will translate to $2 per-litre gasoline, a price the Europeans, by nature of their even higher taxes, have already been paying for a decade or more.
“They’re not giving it away. How cheap do think gas can be?” – Jeff Rubin

Downstream issues
Decades of sudden price jumps, when there is little apparent reason, have hardened Canadian motorists into oil company cynics. Is this justified, Mr. Rubin?


“I’m not going to say that there hasn’t been gouging on occasion, but that’s missing the forest for the trees. Brent is trading around $117 right now. They’re not giving it away. How cheap do you think gas can be?”


Rubin adds that as profitable as gas stations are perceived to be to motorists, integrated and international oil companies are actually trying to get out of these “downstream” parts of their organizations, to concentrate more on “upstream” initiatives, such as exploration, production, R&D, and refining.


And finally, McKnight notes we should be thankful for the current strength of our loonie against the U. S greenback. If the loonie were weaker, as it usually is, the pump pain would be even more extreme.