Drop in filter flow test shoot-out

[axis]

Originally Posted by Higgs Boson

that depends on the true bottleneck. if the exhaust manifolds and cats are more restrictive than the airbox and stock filter, it's not going to do much.

If the exhaust was the true botteneck, it wouldn't matter what intake you have. None of the CAI's would increase HP if that were the case.

[Jason@JacFab]

Originally Posted by axis

As I said last time you posted that link, if you trust the drop in filter results, do you also trust the 25whp/21tq gain from a K&N aircharger and 25/24 from the typhoon? Seeing that none of the best CAI companies claim and prove more than 15-18whp, how can a Aircharger or typhoon make 25? Do you believe those results too?

I never read the rest of the article, only as far as the drop in part. It's the only write up I could find quickly that tested a drop in filter. If you can find some more, I'd be more than happy to read them

Originally Posted by axis

If the exhaust was the true botteneck, it wouldn't matter what intake you have. None of the CAI's would increase HP if that were the case.

I think they are probably close enough that upgrading one could potentially make the other the bottle neck pretty quick. You see 15-18 hp gains from SOLO Cats alone, more from headers. You can see the same 15-18 hp+ gains from most decent intakes.

Again, I didn't start the thead to debate why CAI's are better. If you have someting to contribute as far as info related to drop in filters in the stock airbox, by all means feel free to post it.

[BluegraSS]

Good post. Thanks.

[IndeedSS1]

Just by the amount of light shining through alone it's hard to imagine the Green and S&B being close to each other in flow.

[E.T.]

Anyone get actual HP/TQ numbers on this from a dyno? I thought Jannetty tested this and showed that a drop in filter was worthless from a performance standpoint?

[TooCool5]

Originally Posted by E.T.

Anyone get actual HP/TQ numbers on this from a dyno? I thought Jannetty tested this and showed that a drop in filter was worthless from a performance standpoint?

I remember something similar to this also.

[Jason@JacFab]

Originally Posted by E.T.

Anyone get actual HP/TQ numbers on this from a dyno? I thought Jannetty tested this and showed that a drop in filter was worthless from a performance standpoint?

Originally Posted by TooCool5

I remember something similar to this also.

Here is one such post by Ted claiming a K&N drop in had ZERO effect on hp and torque. jannetty racing question thread post

Ted also mentions that it's not the filter that's the restriction, it's the box itself. I have no reason to dispute Ted's claim, but if you note the spreadsheet picture from the first post, changing filters, or removing the filter all together DOES allow the stock box to flow more. It's not as big of a restriction as people think.

Originally Posted by IndeedSS1

Just by the amount of light shining through alone it's hard to imagine the Green and S&B being close to each other in flow.

Back before I started playing with these filters on the flow bench I would have agreed, but everytime I put the S&B filter on the bench, it flows extremely well despite it's looks.

[IndeedSS1]

Originally Posted by E.T.

Anyone get actual HP/TQ numbers on this from a dyno? I thought Jannetty tested this and showed that a drop in filter was worthless from a performance standpoint?

Can't imagine a filter making much difference, but you certainly can tell if you are running a dirty filter and install new. So maybe there is more to be had than some would want you to think.

[Higgs Boson]

Originally Posted by axis

If the exhaust was the true botteneck, it wouldn't matter what intake you have. None of the CAI's would increase HP if that were the case.

what Jason said.

they are designed around each other from the factory.

[axis]

Originally Posted by RacnJsn95

I never read the rest of the article, only as far as the drop in part. It's the only write up I could find quickly that tested a drop in filter. If you can find some more, I'd be more than happy to read them

I was just stating what was wrong with the article you posted. You already posted that Jannetty showed no increase and that even HE found that the filter wasn't the issue, but the box itself. As I posted in my above post, having the ability to flow more is vastly different than actually doing it. While the box has the ability to flow more, dyno sheets have proven that it doesn't. Must have something to do with easily AVAILABLE AIR. Hmm, seems like i've heard that before.

Originally Posted by RacnJsn95

I think they are probably close enough that upgrading one could potentially make the other the bottle neck pretty quick. You see 15-18 hp gains from SOLO Cats alone, more from headers. You can see the same 15-18 hp+ gains from most decent intakes.

Again, I didn't start the thead to debate why CAI's are better. If you have someting to contribute as far as info related to drop in filters in the stock airbox, by all means feel free to post it.

No one here is debating other CAI's. This is about different filters and the stock box. My CAI and exhaust post was to reference Higgs post about the exhaust being a restriction to the stock box.

Yes switching to high flow cats or LT's will gain good HP but what does that have to do with the stock box being a restriction. If the stock exhaust was a true restriction for the stock intake box, how do other CAI's gain 15-18whp with the same stock exhaust?

Your experiment was nice to see from a data point but what did it prove? It's no suprise that GM chose a filter that actually filtered better than it flowed. From the numbers i've seen from Jannetty and few other posts that showed no increase in HP, it looks like GM chose a filter that filters well and flows more than enough for the engine. The one thing that stood out to me was the snorkle/no snorkle numbers. If you look at the snorkle, you'll notice that it's somewhat radius'd. This is the reason why the snorkle flows better and one of the reasons the Halltech and CAI intakes flow so well. It's no suprise that the only two that have this feature were the best performing intakes in Jannetty's test.

[IndeedSS1]

Originally Posted by E.T.

Anyone get actual HP/TQ numbers on this from a dyno? I thought Jannetty tested this and showed that a drop in filter was worthless from a performance standpoint?

Wonder how much mark up there is in an entire system, verus just a filter?

The other thing is, while WOT is important, so are other areas where the differences between a stock paper filter and a quality performance filter may be much greater.

[Jason@JacFab]

Originally Posted by axis

I was just stating what was wrong with the article you posted. You already posted that Jannetty showed no increase and that even HE found that the filter wasn't the issue, but the box itself. As I posted in my above post, having the ability to flow more is vastly different than actually doing it. While the box has the ability to flow more, dyno sheets have proven that it doesn't. Must have something to do with easily AVAILABLE AIR. Hmm, seems like i've heard that before.

Short of running 15 feet of dryer vent hose from the flow bench to the intake mounted in the car would be the only way to prove that the air is "available", but the flow numbers would be way off, and it would be pointless.

I attempted to simulate the snorkel "in the car" with the "core support" shape plate attached to the front of the snorkel the same distance as it if were in the car... I think the air is available, to the stock box, it's just not the most desireable (cold) air that a cold air intake would be supplying, it more than likely begins to suck more hot engine compartment air. You can't say that the air isn't there, it makes no sense... No easily available GOOD/COLD air, maybe.

Agree to disagree.

Originally Posted by axis

If the stock exhaust was a true restriction for the stock intake box, how do other CAI's gain 15-18whp with the same stock exhaust?

Your experiment was nice to see from a data point but what did it prove? It's no suprise that GM chose a filter that actually filtered better than it flowed. From the numbers i've seen from Jannetty and few other posts that showed no increase in HP, it looks like GM chose a filter that filters well and flows more than enough for the engine. The one thing that stood out to me was the snorkle/no snorkle numbers. If you look at the snorkle, you'll notice that it's somewhat radius'd. This is the reason why the snorkle flows better and one of the reasons the Halltech and CAI intakes flow so well. It's no suprise that the only two that have this feature were the best performing intakes in Jannetty's test.

I guess my test proves absolutely nothing aside from the fact the stock filter doesn't flow very well and there are other options... Once the stock box is put back into the car, it's in some magic place that is void of air, and can't supply anything more than what the stock filter is capable of flowing regardless of filter (or no filter) choice. The one thing that it did prove is that if you want to run your stock box, leave the snorkel in place.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by RacnJsn95

I guess my test proves absolutely nothing aside from the fact the stock filter doesn't flow very well and there are other options... Once the stock box is put back into the car, it's in some magic place that is void of air, and can't supply anything more than what the stock filter is capable of flowing regardless of filter (or no filter) choice. The one thing that it did prove is that if you want to run your stock box, leave the snorkel in place.

I agree with you on this...I've seen that some have attempted to modify the stock airbox and subsequently had worse 1/4 mile times.

As far as results with a high flow filter vs the stock paper filter...I did a K&N filter as my first mod. Simply because I was not going to pay $300 for a CAI that should realistically be $150 at the max. My thinking was that the main restriction in the stock intake was the filter. So I bought the filter, installed it, drove the car, and I felt more throttle response and better acceleration. And for $50 in comparison to all the money we all end up throwing at our cars anyway, I'd say that anyone can simply go buy a K&N and see the difference for themselves. Considering that the "butt dyno" is the most inaccurate dyno of all time, I will refrain from stating anything as fact. However, I did some research online and found that some people have dynoed their car comparing the OEM filter with the K&N. Most found gains in the 5-10 hp range. And I personally did feel like the improvement was consistent and similar to the gains from the other mods I did at later dates. I certainly think that the stock box is capable of providing enough air to see a hp increase from swapping the filter. But I am curious to see a dyno specific to the 5th gen Camaro...I just don't wanna be the one to pay for a dyno of such small magnitude, haha!! Just a couple pennies...

[DRKS1D3]

RACNJSN95: I guess my test proves absolutely nothing aside from the fact the stock filter doesn't flow very well and there are other options... Once the stock box is put back into the car, it's in some magic place that is void of air, and can't supply anything more than what the stock filter is capable of flowing regardless of filter (or no filter) choice. The one thing that it did prove is that if you want to run your stock box, leave the snorkel in place.[/QUOTE]

I believe your testing does prove there are better flowing filters out there vs. stock. As far as the Available Air theory, I don't get it. Your test showed the stock box with the stock filter flowed air...no kidding (your baseline). Then, it flowed better with an aftermarket filter and finally, flowed best with no filter at all (no restriction). What is available air? Do you mean the box won't suck in the extra air? Do you mean the air will be diverted somewhere else? There will always be available air unless for some odd reason you would decide to cut a piece of plywood and place it inside your airbox, thus eliminating all available air. The intake on a vehicle sucks the air into the airbox, through the intake tube and into the engine. We know the intake SUCKS AIR. If it didn't, there would be no such thing as the internal combustion engine (No oxygen "air"=No controlled explosion in the engine via spark plugs and fuel). The better of a flowing filter you put in the box, the more air it will be able to suck in, thus improving performance and combustion. I don't understand the debate here and I'm not trying to be rude or stand-offish in any way, shape or form. Stock Airbox+High-Flow Filter=More Air to create better combustion inside the engine, thus creating more HP and better fuel mileage...