2010 handling issues

[ChrisBlair]

Originally Posted by baldyz

Thanks for all the comments. I am starting to think I should of stuck with the 2 HSV,s that I traded for the Camaro. The rims are meant to be exact copies 20x11 rears and I think 20x10 fronts, tyres are Pirelli P Zero 104y rears and 100y fronts. " Handling like a dog on ice" is probably a bit exaggerated, when driving on all but the smoothest roads, the front end will follow any slight deviation or rut in the seal (tram lining as if it has a crook ball joint), very twitchy feeling through the steering, constantly correcting, just dosn't feel stable, pressures are 36psi, set the alignment to factory ss specs (are zl1 specs different?) It is winter but no snow or ice where we are. Thanks, Baldyz.

So the problem has nothing to do with snow or ice. OK. We are getting someplace now.

Wide tires tend to do that. Sometimes it is called "terrain tracking" or "tramlining"

http://www.tirerack.com/winter/tech/....jsp?techid=47

This part may be most pertinent:

"Tires have the most direct influence on tramlining because they are the part of the vehicle that comes into contact with the road (and the longitudinal ruts and/or grooves that exist there). Unfortunately anything that increases a high performance tire's responsiveness also increases its willingness to tramline.

High performance tires with short sidewalls that develop lots of cornering power at lower slip angles will be more susceptible to tramlining than standard All-Season passenger tires that develop less cornering force until their slip angle increases. A wider treaded tire will encounter more longitudinal ruts and/or grooves in the road than a narrow treaded tire. A tire with large tread blocks that transmits the driver's input to the road with great precision will also transmit the road's imperfections back to the vehicle's suspension. And because tires become more responsive as their tread depth wears away (which is why tires are shaved for competition and track use), a tire will become more likely to tramline as it wears.

Wheels can influence tramlining as well. Installing wider tires or a "Plus Size" tire and wheel package usually requires using wheels with a different offset then the vehicle's original wheels. In some cases, the new wheel will have slightly less offset than the original and in other cases, slightly more. It all depends on the vehicle's suspension design and available wheelwell clearances. You will even find that Original Equipment manufacturers often use different wheel offsets for their different diameter tire and wheel packages."

[Nzcamaro]

Hey there, I'm in christchurch here and laughed at your terminology, the other side of the world struggle with our lingo.
I hear what you're saying, mine was a little vague and did the the same thing.
Running standard rims and tyres, have had the alignment done a couple of times.
I have a good experienced wheel alignment tech,he has set it to suit driver on the left and our road camber so I think setting it at the factory specs won't work.
It still tends to follow grooves in the road but not too bad.
Are you planning to join the New Zealand camaro group?
Jason.

[ActNup NY]

Originally Posted by rebelyell22

Mine doesn't do that. I'm running BFG G Force Sport Comp 2s

+1 (love them BTW)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[woodside783]

Upgrade the away bars to the zl1 sways front and rear
Put a little negative camber in the front it will help a lot

[EMB135Driver]

What are winter temperatures in New Zealand?

[Destructo09]

My Nitto Invo's love to follow imperfections in the road and they're just the stock SS size of 275's in the back and 245's in the front. In some cases it can be pretty bad. I just realize it's a fact of life and it keeps me attentive lol.

[Trob85]

Get a good tire nitto, Michelin something like the add some beefier suspension parts problem solved.

[Norm Peterson]

About alignment - exactly what specs was the alignment set to? Toe in particular, and camber more than caster. Off the top of my head, since toe out tends to make cars twitchy, maybe just a hair more toe in would be something to try, just don't get carried away or your tires' inner shoulder regions will hate you. FWIW, you could probably DIY the front toe adjustment.

Tramlining - if it truly is a case of tramlining, know that some tires are simply worse about this than others. Even in identical sizes on identical width wheels.


What I also think - this may also be partly a matter involving adjustment by the driver that isn't complete yet. 285/35's on 10" wide wheels is 40mm more tire (about 1.6" wider tire) on 2" wider wheels than stock for that car, and the sidewalls are shorter as well. A similar situation exists at the rear - 40 mm more tire, again with 2" more wheel width. My point here is that you probably have a more responsive setup than what you got used to in this car before this upgrade and most likely anything else you've driven. If this is the case, you will eventually adjust (meaning you won't be making the same "overcorrections" at the steering wheel that were the right correction amounts before.


Norm

[Destructo09]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

About alignment - exactly what specs was the alignment set to? Toe in particular, and camber more than caster. Off the top of my head, since toe out tends to make cars twitchy, maybe just a hair more toe in would be something to try, just don't get carried away or your tires' inner shoulder regions will hate you. FWIW, you could probably DIY the front toe adjustment.

Tramlining - if it truly is a case of tramlining, know that some tires are simply worse about this than others. Even in identical sizes on identical width wheels.


What I also think - this may also be partly a matter involving adjustment by the driver that isn't complete yet. 285/35's on 10" wide wheels is 40mm more tire (about 1.6" wider tire) on 2" wider wheels than stock for that car, and the sidewalls are shorter as well. A similar situation exists at the rear - 40 mm more tire, again with 2" more wheel width. My point here is that you probably have a more responsive setup than what you got used to in this car before this upgrade and most likely anything else you've driven. If this is the case, you will eventually adjust (meaning you won't be making the same "overcorrections" at the steering wheel that were the right correction amounts before.


Norm

The solution to inner shoulder wearing is, go around corners faster

At least that's what I do.

[Norm Peterson]

↑↑↑ Works just fine when the "problem" is "too much" negative camber . . .


Norm

[baldyz]

Originally Posted by ChrisBlair

So the problem has nothing to do with snow or ice. OK. We are getting someplace now.

Wide tires tend to do that. Sometimes it is called "terrain tracking" or "tramlining"

http://www.tirerack.com/winter/tech/....jsp?techid=47

This part may be most pertinent:

"Tires have the most direct influence on tramlining because they are the part of the vehicle that comes into contact with the road (and the longitudinal ruts and/or grooves that exist there). Unfortunately anything that increases a high performance tire's responsiveness also increases its willingness to tramline.

High performance tires with short sidewalls that develop lots of cornering power at lower slip angles will be more susceptible to tramlining than standard All-Season passenger tires that develop less cornering force until their slip angle increases. A wider treaded tire will encounter more longitudinal ruts and/or grooves in the road than a narrow treaded tire. A tire with large tread blocks that transmits the driver's input to the road with great precision will also transmit the road's imperfections back to the vehicle's suspension. And because tires become more responsive as their tread depth wears away (which is why tires are shaved for competition and track use), a tire will become more likely to tramline as it wears.

Wheels can influence tramlining as well. Installing wider tires or a "Plus Size" tire and wheel package usually requires using wheels with a different offset then the vehicle's original wheels. In some cases, the new wheel will have slightly less offset than the original and in other cases, slightly more. It all depends on the vehicle's suspension design and available wheelwell clearances. You will even find that Original Equipment manufacturers often use different wheel offsets for their different diameter tire and wheel packages."

Excellent, Thanks.

[baldyz]

Originally Posted by EMB135Driver

What are winter temperatures in New Zealand?

3 degrees c is about as cold as it gets up north.

[baldyz]

Originally Posted by woodside783

Upgrade the away bars to the zl1 sways front and rear
Put a little negative camber in the front it will help a lot

Bars and bushes are on the wish list.

[baldyz]

Originally Posted by Trob85

Get a good tire nitto, Michelin something like the add some beefier suspension parts problem solved.

Can't get Nitto in my size down here. Might have to look at importing some when the Pirelli's wear. (which will be sooner rather than later if the missus keeps letting me drive it) Her daily driver, my weekend car.