LS9 camshaft with GMPP heads.

[Juice2SS]

Originally Posted by smokum

As we all know big cams make great power. No news to any of us on that one. But like juice said the driveability goes to the crapper. Everyone who does a cam or upgrades really needs to know what they want in the end. It is easy to get wrapped up with what everyone else is doing and jump on in with the masses. Then to realize what you dont like about it and its already to late. I had a stage 3 btr cam in my other car. But it also needed a stall to drive ok. I knew that when installing it. I was ok with it. I liked the sound. But without the forced induction it was a waste at that time. Car ran hard and was fun. Dipped into an 11.97 with stock tires. But it was kind of annoying at times. Like 5am going to work. I know i woke my neighbors up quite often. Lol. But what im getting at is it really worth the extra 25-30 hp in the end. Maybe if you are looking to get every last bit out of you setup. Ya maybe . But 95 percent of us dont live at the track. Most dont even dd them. I can say that i do dd mine. About 50 miles a day. My new car has a 417 gt9 cam lsa blower ported heads etc etc etc. Built by adm performance. Yes it has a stall in it. But it runs and idles way better. Does it make a lot of power. Yes. Is it fun to dd. Yes. Will it scare the poo out of people. Yes. It will spin the tires at an 80 mph roll. My point is driveability is way nicer to me that a little bit of horsepower and a constant lumpity lump driving around in it everyday. So i can say this to the op juice2ss. I know where your coming from. And you will enjoy your car a lot more if you install a blower with that ls9 cam and heads rather that that big obnoxious cam.

I've ran some very aggressive for their times cams. CC306 in my LT1 cars. CC503 wasn't aggressive but at the time, everyone loved it. Had the LT4 hot cam kit in my 97 30th car. Moved to my LS1 stuff and built an LS1 swap with LS6 heads and a custom cam in it for my 95 LT1 body. We all point directions and at some point we do find what we want. I miss the ideas of having a ridiculous car for the street. I guess my age is starting to wear on me. lol

I won't deviate from my plan again, My car journal was to keep the car drivable and make great power. I should have been a bit more interested in it. I wanted to be the first around here to go a different route in DFW. I want to see the results of the current configuration with what Andy is about to hook up.

[Rhino79]

I agree juice, sometimes it's easier and more confident to work locally. Andy does a great job! I'm sure you'll be happy with the boost!

[Sack Rat 2SS]

It is hard to quantify DRIVABILITY. You have made a great testament to the fact that it is important to you. Now, lets get that LSA blower installed.

[Juice2SS]

Originally Posted by Pro Stock John

Nice, good luck with the 2nd build, are you adding a ZL1 blower at some point too?

I think it would be interesting to create a context for what these cams are like:

Stock GM L99 195 Intake/201 exhaust @ .050
LPE LS9 211 Intake/230 Exhaust @ .050
GPI SS3 VVT 228 Intake/243 Exhaust @ .050

Could you share what you dynoed before and after?

I just had the GPI SS3 VVT cam and Bo White ported heads installed and I like it alot. Last time I dynoed was 2 years ago, just headers/ underdrive/ airbox/ tune, and did 367 RWHP. Since then added 3.91 gears and a 3200 stall and went 11.8 best MPH of 115. My 2015 goal is 10.99 or quicker with the new heads and cam.

Ryan and I have been tweaking the part-throttle downshifts, like when you coast to a light. One of my local buddies likes it when the RPMs come up a bit as it shifts down, get a big of an engine braking effect. I like something more like stock, so we've lowered the MPH at which each downshift occurs. But I also have 3.91 gears, so 3rd gear for me at a low MPH is still quite driveable. Even when I had my old 2000 Z/28 with the TH400 and manual valve body I'd tend to shift down when I was nearly at a stop. But since I have my own copy of HP Tuners, I like being able to drive the car, log mentally what I like and what I would change, and then go in and say drop the MPH for the 3-2 shift change another 2-3 MPH.

John, 10 second SBE list aspirant

Yup. The ZL1 blower is what is going on in just two weeks. Have a business trip and have to postpone until after.

You know... it's funny you ask for that graph. I have one with all three on the same paper.

You and I were very similar in bolt on mods and attempts at the track. About the same times actually. I ran the car without the heads and went 11.4@118 on DRs and skinnies. I assume you will either be right at 10s or in by a little based on seeing what was ran by Martin with his SS4.

Ya... my issue was timing. I was driving the car to and from work daily and it died 2-3 times each way. Attempts at fixing it made things worse most of the time. Without being able to see the car in person, I'm sure the fixes were difficult. I tried making videos and sound clips but phones don't give you much to work with. Car would drop RPMs immediately to zero when you let out of the gas after cruising on the highway for a few minutes. Just random hard to find stuff. I put a different intake manifold, fuel lines, injectors, throttle body, air intake, exhaust, and several other little items on the car all with no affect. Changed the cam and tuned it. Runs like the day I bought it. Sometimes, its just best to move on when effort is becoming too great to be successful with something.

[Juice2SS]

Originally Posted by Sack Rat 2SS

It is hard to quantify DRIVABILITY. You have made a great testament to the fact that it is important to you. Now, lets get that LSA blower installed.

Perhaps I didn't explain what drivability is to me. Drivability means the car does not die at a red light. It does not buck and surge to the point where it thrusts towards cars in front of you when coming to a stop. It also does not increase RPMs above 2200 when reversing out of your driveway in the morning. Maybe I was a bit illusive in describing in what I expect drivability to be for me when I know what cam I purchased. It was in no way an issue of the design of the cam. There are several people here who have the same cam or larger without the issues I had. Trying to get the issues resolved was difficult. The shop at GPI has many cars to deal with daily and I am sure Ryan did what he could when he could. I just needed faster and more accurate changes than he was able to do remotely. I was turned down by several WELL KNOWN nationally tuners because they either didn't do VVT or they couldn't guarantee results. So... does that seem to be more centric to the idea that I wanted my car to continue to idle when I turned the key?

[Pro Stock John]

Yeah that LS9 cam has a nice idle quality (122 LSA), I'm thinking of running it in my '51 Merc since it will idle like stock.

I'd just say in counter point respectfully that I've had great experience with local tuning, but I think Ryan @ GPI has a better handle on L99/6L80E tuning. Don't get me wrong, the SS3 is rowdy but the power is pretty awesome.

I will say that the part-throttle downshifts are probably the hardest part to dial in because everyone has slightly different combos and also personal taste on drivability. I'm actually going to experiment this weekend with dropping down the 4-3 downshift just a smidge to see if I like that more. But I'm glad my car is rowdy I don't want anyone else driving it LOL.

Post up a sound video when you can!

[Rhino79]

Any stalling john?

[Pro Stock John]

Not yet but I'll do my best to stall it out next time I drive it.

[Camarojt]

John you mention that you and Ryan were tweaking your part throttle downshifts?? If I remember correctly I had a similar driveability issue about 1 year ago. It was after I did a VMax TB. I tried to fix it with the quote "strong MAF" lol.
It was then later that Andy at ADM saw the issue was the downshift torque management settings.
Every since then my car drives perfectly with my big converter.

[Rhino79]

Yeah closed throttle tq mgt has to be killed with a converter!

[Juice2SS]

Originally Posted by Pro Stock John

Not yet but I'll do my best to stall it out next time I drive it.

I bet you exceed the previous 3200 RPMs you had before. I went from 3600 to 4050. Made the 60 foot nice.

[Pro Stock John]

Yeah real hard to tell what it stalls to now, zero traction right now.

Sounds like your eventual combo might be very similar to Dan white ZL1s.

Jeff, just adjusting the downshifts to minimize how much the rpms come up, just personal preference. I just loaded in a tweak Ryan made for me and I further tweaked the 4-3 downshift MPH.

Good luck Juiced!

[Juice2SS]

I had no idea what mine could stall at until I got the MTs on it at the track. Converter did its JB for sure. I used Yank for a reason. Used them in 4 previous cars that ran really well.

[Pro Stock John]

Interestingly the CC306 is 230/244//112 similar generally to the SS3 (228/243//112).