Question of the DAY

[sweaver]

Originally Posted by Shooter1

Thanks for the valuable information. Nice to see these motors really hold up pretty well. Even more valuable to ALOT of us is to see some real world, to the edge pushing it.

Thanks for posting.

+2
I think thats awesome when someone KNOWS the exact limitations of the car.

[JohnInSoCal]

great information, I'm glad you were willing to push it and let everybody know what these stock engines can handle and what the breaking point is. I haven't seen anybody else do this kind of research so props to you.

[Adam@ST]

Originally Posted by vinyljunkie

so you're telling us your selling the extra parts?

Just the old rods...may just keep them around for a conversation piece.

[axis]

Which FI option do you have?

[Z_Rocks]

Originally Posted by Adam@ST

PROUD????..More like honest and stand up. This is standard for me, as I will push all my cars to see the breaking point. How can you tell someone how long there car will live if you dont push it to the limit?? You CANT. I beat the hell out of the car at 12psi, 14 psi, and 16 psi. Stepped it up to 18(actually 17.8lbs peak) We actually ran the car 7 passes at the PSCA event last weekend. I brought the car back to the shop, and hurt it on the street making some trans adjustments.
We pulled the engine out and found all the rods were self adjusting for the level of boost. I replaced all the rods with some take outs and put the engine back together (stock rods, and pistons,etc). EVERY piston was perfect, so until I finish my build, I figured the $300.00 for parts was worth it to drive the car a few weeks.
Like I said, I push all my cars to the breaking point to see where they will fail,NOT a customers car . Now you guys have some data,on my dime.

For example..18.5 psi on the stock engine in my 05 Mustang...piston fell apart.
22 psi in my 09 SRT8 Challenger rods exploded.
18 psi, 2010 Camaro L99 rods adjusted themselves for the boost.
Bottom line, I would say for my customers 12lbs will be the limit. 14lbs will hold, but there should be a margin of safety.
By the way..the car made 658 rwhp and 591.rwtq

Thanks Adam

Adam, good info. But let me ask you this. Why did you bring up the results of boost over rods and not the pistons (in stock cars)? Wouldn't you say the pistons and the rings are the first to go in high boost before the rods begin to show weakness? Most of the cases that I've read about, seemed like the pistons were first to go.

Secondly, your post is also should be taken as an "educational" point. Meaning, if someone wants to go 7lb - 12lb of boost what parts needs to be changed or 7lb - 18lb what other parts needs upgrades.

[Adam@ST]

Originally Posted by Z_Rocks

Adam, good info. But let me ask you this. Why did you bring up the results of boost over rods and not the pistons (in stock cars)? Wouldn't you say the pistons and the rings are the first to go in high boost before the rods begin to show weakness? Most of the cases that I've read about, seemed like the pistons were first to go.

Secondly, your post is also should be taken as an "educational" point. Meaning, if someone wants to go 7lb - 12lb of boost what parts needs to be changed or 7lb - 18lb what other parts needs upgrades.

The last 3 engines Ive pushed (Ford,Dodge,and Chevy)have all lost the rods first. Its a real shame, the manufacturers go so cheapon the powdered rods. So far the rods HAVE proven to be the weakpoint. The pistons have held up fine. With the proper tuning, and fuel for the boost being run, the stock piston appear to be hangin in like a champ. The main reason for piston failure is detonation,and I dont have that going on.I actually put the engine back together,(bought some used rods,and slapped them on the OG pistons,and put them back in the block) and just ran a 11.17@125 with bad DA' and a 10-15mph head wind. Gusts have hit 20+.
For mods..exhaust is always a good mod to compliment a blower and will definitley add HP. Im still running stock cats, and manifolds right now,but will have American Racing Headers on the car next week. Ill post a back to back test for you guys. No tune changes..just the header swap. I personally wouldnt reccommend to exceed 14 psi unless you are ready to pull the trigger on a build. Id say 8 psi for street, and 12-14 on race gas for reliability.
This can go several directions, and combos can get crazy.I try to keep things simple for the daily drivers. Ill be postingup alot over the next 2-3 weeks. I have a 419 inch engine in the works,heads,cam,etc, long tubes, and exhaust tests as well. I will also be doing a bacvk to back test with the 2.8 vs the 3.6 KB as well.
I realize Im the new guy, so Ill take my time here, and show you guys how I work.
Thanks Adam

[Z_Rocks]

Originally Posted by Adam@ST

I realize Im the new guy, so Ill take my time here, and show you guys how I work.

Adam, I'm sure [and hope] customers in SoCal pay attention to your posts as far as how much time and money you're investing of your own, so you would have answers before you build for customer. Unfortunately, many shops use customers as their trail & error to find out. So my to you for your work and I wish you luck!

[HondaPowered]

Originally Posted by HondaPowered

hmmmmmm, 18?

Originally Posted by Adam@ST

PROUD????..More like honest and stand up. This is standard for me, as I will push all my cars to see the breaking point. How can you tell someone how long there car will live if you dont push it to the limit?? You CANT. I beat the hell out of the car at 12psi, 14 psi, and 16 psi. Stepped it up to 18(actually 17.8lbs peak) We actually ran the car 7 passes at the PSCA event last weekend. I brought the car back to the shop, and hurt it on the street making some trans adjustments.
We pulled the engine out and found all the rods were self adjusting for the level of boost. I replaced all the rods with some take outs and put the engine back together (stock rods, and pistons,etc). EVERY piston was perfect, so until I finish my build, I figured the $300.00 for parts was worth it to drive the car a few weeks.
Like I said, I push all my cars to the breaking point to see where they will fail,NOT a customers car . Now you guys have some data,on my dime.

For example..18.5 psi on the stock engine in my 05 Mustang...piston fell apart.
22 psi in my 09 SRT8 Challenger rods exploded.
18 psi, 2010 Camaro L99 rods adjusted themselves for the boost.
Bottom line, I would say for my customers 12lbs will be the limit. 14lbs will hold, but there should be a margin of safety.
By the way..the car made 658 rwhp and 591.rwtq

Thanks Adam

So... I won? XD

What do I get?

[b20]

Originally Posted by Adam@ST

How much boost does it take to bend all 8 connecting rods??
A) 12
B) 18
C) 20

depends i have ran some at 18 but i can tune good lol

broken parts equal to timing more so than boost level

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Adam@ST

PROUD????..More like honest and stand up. This is standard for me, as I will push all my cars to see the breaking point. How can you tell someone how long there car will live if you dont push it to the limit?? You CANT. I beat the hell out of the car at 12psi, 14 psi, and 16 psi. Stepped it up to 18(actually 17.8lbs peak) We actually ran the car 7 passes at the PSCA event last weekend. I brought the car back to the shop, and hurt it on the street making some trans adjustments.
We pulled the engine out and found all the rods were self adjusting for the level of boost. I replaced all the rods with some take outs and put the engine back together (stock rods, and pistons,etc). EVERY piston was perfect, so until I finish my build, I figured the $300.00 for parts was worth it to drive the car a few weeks.
Like I said, I push all my cars to the breaking point to see where they will fail,NOT a customers car . Now you guys have some data,on my dime.

For example..18.5 psi on the stock engine in my 05 Mustang...piston fell apart.
22 psi in my 09 SRT8 Challenger rods exploded.
18 psi, 2010 Camaro L99 rods adjusted themselves for the boost.
Bottom line, I would say for my customers 12lbs will be the limit. 14lbs will hold, but there should be a margin of safety.
By the way..the car made 658 rwhp and 591.rwtq

Thanks Adam

Originally Posted by Adam@ST

The last 3 engines Ive pushed (Ford,Dodge,and Chevy)have all lost the rods first. Its a real shame, the manufacturers go so cheapon the powdered rods. So far the rods HAVE proven to be the weakpoint. The pistons have held up fine. With the proper tuning, and fuel for the boost being run, the stock piston appear to be hangin in like a champ. The main reason for piston failure is detonation,and I dont have that going on.I actually put the engine back together,(bought some used rods,and slapped them on the OG pistons,and put them back in the block) and just ran a 11.17@125 with bad DA' and a 10-15mph head wind. Gusts have hit 20+.
For mods..exhaust is always a good mod to compliment a blower and will definitley add HP. Im still running stock cats, and manifolds right now,but will have American Racing Headers on the car next week. Ill post a back to back test for you guys. No tune changes..just the header swap. I personally wouldnt reccommend to exceed 14 psi unless you are ready to pull the trigger on a build. Id say 8 psi for street, and 12-14 on race gas for reliability.
This can go several directions, and combos can get crazy.I try to keep things simple for the daily drivers. Ill be postingup alot over the next 2-3 weeks. I have a 419 inch engine in the works,heads,cam,etc, long tubes, and exhaust tests as well. I will also be doing a bacvk to back test with the 2.8 vs the 3.6 KB as well.
I realize Im the new guy, so Ill take my time here, and show you guys how I work.
Thanks Adam

That's some R&D right there! Thanks for sharing. I'm sure many people here have thought about pushing these cars to the limit, and this is pretty educational. I think it's important to stress, as you already pointed out, that fueling and tuning have been of utmost importance.

Thanks for sharing and I know I'll be paying close attention in the coming weeks

PS - How's that tranny? That's still the 6L80, right? I don't recall seeing an 4L80-swap or anything yet, lol.