Putting down up to 50hp more at the wheels without engine mods

[danhr]

I gained .1 from taking my front sway bar off... does that mean that's worth roughly 10 rwhp, since that's how much hp it takes to go .10 faster? Or better yet.. put a better driver in there and it goes faster.... does that mean how much power you make is relavant to who is driving? Weight transfer/body flex/suspension travel/etc. has nothing to do with how much power you make...

I'm sorry, but imo, this is just a marketing scam to lure gullible people in. A company that does that, will not get my business

[flht99b]

You gotta love it, maybe all these parts will help cure balding too.
Ed M.

[brtaus]

IMHO, there has to be something to this. Eibach claims their kit can increase MPG's.

http://performance-suspension.eibach...ws_test_eibach

So, if that is true, why can't this be true?

[danhr]

Because mileage is determined by countless factors... one being aerodynamics. A lowered car has better aerodynamics. I think 13% is exaggerated, but it is more believable than a bushing adding 50 rwhp.

[Mr Twisty]

Originally Posted by danhr

........Weight transfer/body flex/suspension travel/etc. has nothing to do with how much power you make...

But it has a lot to do with how much power you get to the pavement, and I think you know that. I also think you know that's the point Mike was making.

Please don't come in here bashing on our long time members that actually like to help.

If you don't have anything constructive to add.........

[danhr]

A proper suspension is key, but to say "add 50 hp at the wheels" by using a few bushings, puts the wrong kind of information in those not as knowledgable.

And I'm suppose to keep my opinions to myself? Doesn't that defeat the entire purpose of a forum? Not going to mention any sites but I do know of another popular lsx forum, in which if u say a single bad thing about a sponsor, it gets mysteriously deleted

[strauchpete]

you may get more power as the seat of your pants feel because of more stiff bushings ect ect, But as far as dyno numbers go suspension does not have that much effect on it.

It can make the car more efficient on getting the power to the pavement but it cant add HP.

[Longhorn SS]

Cut him a little slack. Perhaps it could have been worded better, but he's just saying that better suspension can have an equivalent effect to added horsepower. Same could be said about removing weight from the car.

Do you fill the gas tank before going to the drag strip? I'm sure you could make a similar analogy on this basis.

I don't think there was an intention to mislead, they're just trying to say there are other ways to go faster.

[Info@PeddersUSA.com]

Originally Posted by danhr

I gained .1 from taking my front sway bar off... does that mean that's worth roughly 10 rwhp, since that's how much hp it takes to go .10 faster? Or better yet.. put a better driver in there and it goes faster.... does that mean how much power you make is relavant to who is driving? Weight transfer/body flex/suspension travel/etc. has nothing to do with how much power you make...

I'm sorry, but imo, this is just a marketing scam to lure gullible people in. A company that does that, will not get my business

Spending $8k to $10K on getting serious HP is not being efficient if you do not have the chasis set up to be able to handle the hp.

Is this marketing our products? Absolutely. Is it bringing up a point for all of you to consider to make your vehicle more efficient? Absolutely.

Last year I did a training Charger at a shop that spent $15,000 on hp gains. He did have the suspension enhanced with our Track II system. He also had some $8,000 wheels and tires installed, and the car looked absolutely hot as heck. But the wheels and tires weighed 78lbs a piece. So he added 132 pounds of unsprung weight, but also added some monster brakes. The effects of the heavy wheels is serious for hp. I believe the ratio is 1hp to 2lbs of unsprung weight. So the wheels cost him 66hp at the rear wheels. Did he loose the hp at the flywheel? No. He effectivelly lost the hp in practical application. This really will not show up much on a dyno, but will show up in actual performance.

I talk to Camaro owners daily that are spending $5,000 to $25,000 on engine performance enhancement, then call me and tell me they need some help in putting down the actual hp, but do not have any budget left.

Don't I ask you what is the cost of 50hp gains at the rear wheels??

What is the cost of 100hp gains at the rear wheels??

I am interested in seeing what everyone's perspective is on this. I have some numbers but want the numbers to come from this community and not me.

I have 2 examples assisting a autocrosser and a part time road coarse or track day driver. Both had blowers installed, and the tracker also had long tubes and a custom programmer. The auto crosser actually lost time on his effective auto crossing, because of the added weight in the front, the increase in understeer, and the inability to put down any additional hp.

The tracker gained a half second on his road coarse. The only variable was the weather. But his Camaro understeered more and was only able to gain some acceleration on the straights, but lost in thru the twisties.

Do drag racers only focus on how fast they can accelerate, or should you look at the entire package on the ability to launch and improve your 60 foot times?

So the purpose this thread is to open everyone's minds and not just think about the hormone inducing engine power needs, but to think about a balance of hp and suspension to be able to able to be more efficient.

I am willing to bet if we take a stock SS that has say 550hp at the rear, and a stock SS with a full Pedders system, the stock Pedderized Camaro, will eat the lunch of the 550hp Camaro at Gingerman race track. If there are any Camaros who would like to challenge me on this at Gingerman, just ask.


The fact that guy(s) are mentiioning that suspension will not increase a hp on a dyno, means you totally do not understand what I am talking about. One last analogy. Chatted yesterday with a guy who is part of a 13 man pit crew for a GT2(??) car. They have a $10,000,000 budget a year to run this ride, and have yet to be under budget. They have 3-4 engineers, including one that fly in from Germany for every race, to set up these rides for each race. These engineers are 100% involved with the suspension setup. No engineer is there for the motor. There is a representative at the track who makes these motors for a multitude of rides. So the emphasis is primarily on suspension and handling, not on hp. Hope this helps
thanks
mike
dms

[Michael_Js]

Great write-up Mike! I am constantly being asked when the SC is going in! Well, my recent and current mods are all in suspension work. I don't race, but I like a fast, well handling machine for the back roads. Coilovers next week, control arms, chassis brace, strut brace...Next, bushings...

[danhr]

you are contradicting yourself way too much.

Saying "put down 50 more hp at the wheels without engine mods" and saying "making you car hook efficiently" are two totally different things. Suspension is not dependent on power or vice versa.

Think about what you said... you are trying to measure suspension with horsepower.

Think about that.

A better way of realistically marketing your product, would be "cut .3 off your 60' time" or "make your 400 rwhp camaro hook".

Fact:

Torque = Force x Distance

Fact:

Horsepower = (Torque x RPM) / 5252

No where in any of those equations do I see "polyurethane bushings"

[Info@PeddersUSA.com]

Originally Posted by danhr

you are contradicting yourself way too much.

Saying "put down 50 more hp at the wheels without engine mods" and saying "making you car hook efficiently" are two totally different things. Suspension is not dependent on power or vice versa.

Think about what you said... you are trying to measure suspension with horsepower.

Think about that.

A better way of realistically marketing your product, would be "cut .3 off your 60' time" or "make your 400 rwhp camaro hook".

Fact:

Torque = Force x Distance

Fact:

Horsepower = (Torque x RPM) / 5252

No where in any of those equations do I see "polyurethane bushings"

Do you understand the concept and the rationale about being more hp efficient?

thanks
mike
dms

[Mr Twisty]

Originally Posted by danhr

Fact:

Torque = Force x Distance

Fact:

Horsepower = (Torque x RPM) / 5252

No where in any of those equations do I see "polyurethane bushings"

How do you measure the horsepower of a light bulb?

How do you measure the horsepower of a horse?

[mtcwby]

50 HP???? What are you smoking??