Camaro Shorty headers price?

[divvichild]

Originally Posted by Dom

This can get pretty long trying to explain the physics behind it. Long tubes will give you more power but are illegal in some areas like California.

I have no emissions where I live so I can do whatever. I never had a cop check out if I have headers so that's a little weird. Maybe if you get caught street racing.

Oh, so long tubes means totally removing the cats?

Yeh, if so, that is totally illegal in CA.

[Dom]

Originally Posted by divvichild

Oh, so long tubes means totally removing the cats?

Yeh, if so, that is totally illegal in CA.

Most header companies give you the option. Cats or ORP(off-road pipes). The ones with cats will be more money since you're buying 2 high flow cats. They do move cats farther away from the engine so they are still illegal in some areas.

[headpunter]

They have to have a carb number they can be legal, you just have to pass visual (have carb numbers for all mods) and pass the sniffer

some companies have longtubes with carb numbers but not many

[383ss]

Originally Posted by divvichild

I'm not a car moron, but just wanted to clarify something (maybe others have the same question).

When you refer to shorties and long tubes, thats the difference in length between the engine exhaust value and the cat? Is that correct?

Came to this conclusion because the longer the tube, the more the exhaust cools, and the slower the reaction that removes unwanted products from the exhaust.

does that sound even close?

not quite right and your wording is off. It is the difference in length of the primaries. A long-tube will have around 24" tubes off the exhaust port (not valve). Shorties are about 12". LT's have much better scavenging and flow.

[radz28]

However, long tubes (LTs)will cool the exhaust, which in not desirable. I've checked my tube temperature at the exhaust port flange and just in front of the cat' just past the merge collector and the exhaust port was around 800*, but by the time the exhaust got to the cat' it was down to about 450. A reason LTs are illegal is because they allow the exhaust to cool and they don't always light the cats' off quick enough (cats' need to operate at high temperatures in order to burn off emissions) and don't start working as quickly as the smog-people require. The argument can be made that header material, coatings, or wraps will help but I just don't think any LT would pass the light-off time (if I'm not mistaken, there is an actual measurement of time that the cats' are allowed to take in order to reach operating temperatures and if they aren't met, it doesn't pass). Someone could break this down better than I.

I think they'll be close to the cost of a catback which I'm sure will be in the $1100 neighborhood because of the dual exhaust arrangement. Being it's been said they're going to be stainless, I'm sure they're going to get pretty close in price and if they're going to have CARB ceritification, they have to get the certification costs back, which are not cheap.

JMHO.

[Robin Lawrence]

Originally Posted by radz282003

However, long tubes (LTs)will cool the exhaust, which in not desirable. I've checked my tube temperature at the exhaust port flange and just in front of the cat' just past the merge collector and the exhaust port was around 800*, but by the time the exhaust got to the cat' it was down to about 450. A reason LTs are illegal is because they allow the exhaust to cool and they don't always light the cats' off quick enough (cats' need to operate at high temperatures in order to burn off emissions) and don't start working as quickly as the smog-people require. The argument can be made that header material, coatings, or wraps will help but I just don't think any LT would pass the light-off time (if I'm not mistaken, there is an actual measurement of time that the cats' are allowed to take in order to reach operating temperatures and if they aren't met, it doesn't pass). Someone could break this down better than I.

I think they'll be close to the cost of a catback which I'm sure will be in the $1100 neighborhood because of the dual exhaust arrangement. Being it's been said they're going to be stainless, I'm sure they're going to get pretty close in price and if they're going to have CARB ceritification, they have to get the certification costs back, which are not cheap.

JMHO.

Very accurate! The shorties tend to also bolt up to the existing cats, H or Y pipe at the stock location. Some companies sell shorties that can only be used with their mid pipes but that is rare. Don't discount the power of the shorties verses the long tubes. We ran shorties on our race car (class rules) and made very good power. Also the shorties have more ground clearance.

With long tubes we could never get the idle to go closed loop because the O2's could not get hot enough.


Robin

[Cessna510]

Great info guys! I've always ran LT's and their sound and numbers are amazing!

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Robin Lawrence

Very accurate! The shorties tend to also bolt up to the existing cats, H or Y pipe at the stock location. Some companies sell shorties that can only be used with their mid pipes but that is rare. Don't discount the power of the shorties verses the long tubes. We ran shorties on our race car (class rules) and made very good power. Also the shorties have more ground clearance.

With long tubes we could never get the idle to go closed loop because the O2's could not get hot enough.


Robin

May we ask for any sort of performance numbers and whether or not we can get CARB exemption with these babies?

[attymf]

does anyone have an decent guess as to the power gains for the shorties? Catback exhaust? Cold air intake?

Price???

[playhard67]

Originally Posted by attymf

does anyone have an decent guess as to the power gains for the shorties? Catback exhaust? Cold air intake?

Price???

[Mr Twisty]

Originally Posted by attymf

does anyone have an decent guess as to the power gains for the shorties? Catback exhaust? Cold air intake?

Price???

I'm gonna go out on a limb here...This is apples to oranges now...Stainless shorties for a small block V8 usually advertise ~8-10 hp gain, a little better torque gain. They ARE stainless (which if taken care of may last the life of the car) Having said that, expect them to be well north of 600 bucks...They ARE stainless!

[playhard67]

the shorty headers for the 'Maro are stainless?

[Mr Twisty]

Originally Posted by playhard67

the shorty headers for the 'Maro are stainless?

Yup, that's what they're saying.

[H2OTOYS]

Performance numbers please for shorties, cats & cold air intake? Also, do we need a programmer/chip for that?