Electric Vehicles

[FarmerFran]

I cannot believe Dodge whiffed on the Daytona. It would be ok if the Scat Pack was R/T money but for the price and features it cannot outrun a model 3 that is less money - way less money.

And where is GM with their "high power" EV?

Ford is at least trying with the Mach E.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

I cannot believe Dodge whiffed on the Daytona. It would be ok if the Scat Pack was R/T money but for the price and features it cannot outrun a model 3 that is less money - way less money.

And where is GM with their "high power" EV?

Ford is at least trying with the Mach E.

Blazer EV SS. 577 hp. 3.4s 0-60. $62k Order books are open.

Lyriq V-Series soon to follow.

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Blazer EV SS. 577 hp. 3.4s 0-60. $62k Order books are open.

Lyriq V-Series soon to follow.

Discussion, not bashing EV, seriously why can no other major MFG match their numbers in serious EV competition. I would guess splitting the cost for EV, Hybrid and ICE? Where as Tesla has a single focus?

How does the Blazer EV compare to the Tesla in terms of track quality like the
Model Y. Can the Blazer turn and stop like the Y? The Y is fast, not 3 fast but fast.

And what is the Lyric V cost? and performance?

I mean look what Tesla did with the new Model3 performance, you would be crazy "not to buy one"? Prove me wrong (I hate saying that), "you" not necessarily Jim but just in general. I know you own one. Well and a GM EV.

I really like what FORD and Stellantis did with the EV trying to create a "muscle" car but man, you have to have the performance like Tesala

Dodge Scat Pack Daytona EV
Ford Mustang Mach-E Rally
GM? Seems like they concentrated on 100K+ EV trucks first because thgge COrvette is in thier back pocket.

[ariZona28]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

I cannot believe Dodge whiffed on the Daytona. It would be ok if the Scat Pack was R/T money but for the price and features it cannot outrun a model 3 that is less money - way less money.

And where is GM with their "high power" EV?

Ford is at least trying with the Mach E.

Corvette E-ray. Only thing gm (not GM) has done worthwhile in the electric performance department.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

Discussion, not bashing EV, seriously why can no other major MFG match their numbers in serious EV competition. I would guess splitting the cost for EV, Hybrid and ICE? Where as Tesla has a single focus?

How does the Blazer EV compare to the Tesla in terms of track quality like the
Model Y. Can the Blazer turn and stop like the Y? The Y is fast, not 3 fast but fast.

And what is the Lyric V cost? and performance?

Track performance of a Blazer EV SS compared to a Model Y Performance is yet to be seen, though I can't imagine anyone will have serious interest in legitimately tracking either vehicle. I would expect the Blazer SS handling to fall a bit short of the Model Y Performance handling simply due to mass. But who knows. GM suspension engineers have done some amazing things of late.

Lyriq V is listed at $78,595 for a high performance, premium content and trim SUV. https://www.cadillac.com/electric/ly...BoCbTIQAvD_BwE
Compare that to Jeep Wagoneer S priced at $70k for a more mainstream vehicle. That would be a no-brainer for me. But I'd still be very much satisfied with just grabbing a Blazer SS for $62k. For now.

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

I mean look what Tesla did with the new Model3 performance, you would be crazy "not to buy one"? Prove me wrong (I hate saying that), "you" not necessarily Jim but just in general. I know you own one. Well and a GM EV.

Just to be clear, we own a Tesla Model Y Dual Motor Long Range, not a Model Y Performance. There's a big difference. Camaro LT vs ZL1 level difference performance wise, even though not a big price difference. I've toyed with the idea of getting a Model 3 Performance, but that was before I picked up the Equinox EV. When the Equinox lease is up I'll be in the market for something more exciting so Blazer SS, Model 3 Performance, and a few other goodies that should be in market by then will be considerations.

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

I really like what FORD and Stellantis did with the EV trying to create a "muscle" car but man, you have to have the performance like Tesala

Dodge Scat Pack Daytona EV
Ford Mustang Mach-E Rally
GM? Seems like they concentrated on 100K+ EV trucks first because thgge COrvette is in thier back pocket.

I think it's all a matter of strategy and setting yourself up for the long play. Remember, the first Ultium EV GM brought out of the gate was the 1,000 hp Hummer EV. Bolt EV and EUV were the "low" priced volume models but they were taken out of production to pave the way for more Ultium based product. I know GM doesn't use the Ultium brand any more, but it's the cleanest way to differentiate the older ICE platform based product (Volt / Bolt) from the newer EV skateboard based product.

GM hasn't really been all that focused on trucks. Their mainstream, high volume EVs are Blazer EV and Equinox EV. Their premium high volume EVs are Lyriq and Optiq. Over the next few years they'll expand their portfolio out from those vehicles. That includes EV variants of Camaro and Corvette.

Ford came to market completely differently, starting with the Mach E built from an ICE platform followed by F150 Lightning, also from an ICE platform.

Stellantis is late to the game (sorta) and leading with the Ram 1500 variants and the Charger, both off the STLA Large multi-energy platform.

All three moved introduction of their EV trucks to the front of the line originally out of concern of what would have happened if Cybertruck turned out to not be a flop. If Cybertruck had lived up to all of the original promises (500 mile range, 15,000 lb towing, starting at $40,000) the domestics would have been called out hard for NOT having an answer. So Ford and GM got their EV trucks to the market BEFORE Tesla. But since Cybertruck came in with 300 mile range, 11,000 lbs towing capacity and first models priced over $100k it turned out to be a non-event. No real worries of Tesla taking real business away from traditional trucks like Silverado, F150 or Ram. There is a $79k version coming soon, but there'll probably never be a $40k version.

[90503]

I hope the Bolt, when it finally is available, has a low MSRP. My choice and only need for a practical EV would have to be a low priced (and I mean low priced) around town little puddle-jumper.

The very nature of all types of EVs should be low cost compared to ICE, and not just due to the ongoing promise of cheaper batteries. The whole design was touted as fewer components and systems than ICE, ergo lower cost...Yet to happen. Bolt should be a step in the right direction.

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by 90503

I hope the Bolt, when it finally is available, has a low MSRP. My choice and only need for a practical EV would have to be a low priced (and I mean low priced) around town little puddle-jumper.

The very nature of all types of EVs should be low cost compared to ICE, and not just due to the ongoing promise of cheaper batteries. The whole design was touted as fewer components and systems than ICE, ergo lower cost...Yet to happen. Bolt should be a step in the right direction.

I didn't expect to see desperation on this so soon:

https://www.carscoops.com/2025/02/do...ith-4-5k-down/

$4500 down seems steep, and 7500 isn't much, either. "Diamond hands!" as they used say during the GameStop short era.

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by Capricio

I didn't expect to see desperation on this so soon:

https://www.carscoops.com/2025/02/do...ith-4-5k-down/

$4500 down seems steep, and 7500 isn't much, either. "Diamond hands!" as they used say during the GameStop short era.

See for this one I think it is a little less about EV and a lot more about $$$$$ they are freaking expensive. And I go back to my earlier post, they are not as fast as the completion in the price range.

So as a "muscle car guy" and that is who they want to get, while I get brand loyalty the 3 muscle cars used to be pretty close and priced equal - sort of, mostly

Now you have...

The Ioniq 5n running an 11 flat @122ish with a 2.8 jump to 60 - $65K
The Model3 Performance 10.9 @125ish and a 2.8 jump to 60 - $68K
The Mustang Rally E 11.8 @113 and a 3.4 jump to 60 - $62K

The Charger Scat Pack 11.5 @ 118ish with a 3.3 jump to 60 - $73K
The Charger R/T version 12.8 @whocares with a 4.7 jump to 60 - $60K

It is getting its ass handed to it for cars that are $1000s less.

Instead of Dodge being gearheads... they should be called Knuckleheads!


EDIT: Someone please correct me if my number are grossly off.

[Aqua Blue RS/SS]

I just read that Trump pulled 5 billion in federal funding from the infrastructure act in 2021 that was allocated for charging stations. Which I honestly support. I wasn’t alive, nor do I claim to know for sure, but I’d bet gas stations in the early 20th century weren’t paid for by the feds… I’d be willing to bet the private sector and good ole capitalism saw a need and entrepreneurs filled it somewhat gradually over a few decades as the demand increased. That’s how it should be. Government needs to get the help out of it, whether it be mandates or subsidies, etc. They still need to stay out of it and let the American people decide.

[Realist]

Originally Posted by Aqua Blue RS/SS

I just read that Trump pulled 5 billion in federal funding from the infrastructure act in 2021 that was allocated for charging stations. Which I honestly support. I wasn’t alive, nor do I claim to know for sure, but I’d bet gas stations in the early 20th century weren’t paid for by the feds… I’d be willing to bet the private sector and good ole capitalism saw a need and entrepreneurs filled it somewhat gradually over a few decades as the demand increased. That’s how it should be. Government needs to get the help out of it, whether it be mandates or subsidies, etc. They still need to stay out of it and let the American people decide.

1000% agree with you. I read somewhere recently where the big semi truck stations along the interstates like Pilot and such were to get big $’s to install EV chargers. That’s crazy, let these stations cover the cost. Sadly a few months back our Gov agreed to a 5 or 6 Billion dollar grant to Rivian for their plant down south. Let’s be honest, it won’t be paid back, they keep getting investment dollars and I just don’t see them making it without continued billions from VW or whomever. As long it’s not the US taxpayers on the hook I’m fine. Otherwise get off the taxpayers tit!!

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

I hope the Bolt, when it finally is available, has a low MSRP. My choice and only need for a practical EV would have to be a low priced (and I mean low priced) around town little puddle-jumper.

The very nature of all types of EVs should be low cost compared to ICE, and not just due to the ongoing promise of cheaper batteries. The whole design was touted as fewer components and systems than ICE, ergo lower cost...Yet to happen. Bolt should be a step in the right direction.

It would be safe to assume that they will be priced comparatively low. Compared to the original Bolt EV the Equinox EV is a bigger more upscale vehicle with more content and longer range. And it is priced near where the original Bolts were priced. The next gen Bolt will slot below the Equinox EV in the Chevrolet portfolio.

The Equinox EV is priced at $34,995 for a base LT, $44,795 for a base RS. When it left the market the Bolt EV base price was $26,500 for LT and Bolt EUV was priced at $27,800 for LT. But keep in mind that for the 2022 model year and the start of 2023, Bolt EV prices were $31,995 for the LT, $35,695 for the Premier. The Premier was priced higher than the Equinox EV LT is priced now. The Bolt EUV was priced at $33,000 for the LT and $38,495 for the Premier.

[snizzle]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

It would be safe to assume that they will be priced comparatively low. Compared to the original Bolt EV the Equinox EV is a bigger more upscale vehicle with more content and longer range. And it is priced near where the original Bolts were priced. The next gen Bolt will slot below the Equinox EV in the Chevrolet portfolio.

The Equinox EV is priced at $34,995 for a base LT, $44,795 for a base RS. When it left the market the Bolt EV base price was $26,500 for LT and Bolt EUV was priced at $27,800 for LT. But keep in mind that for the 2022 model year and the start of 2023, Bolt EV prices were $31,995 for the LT, $35,695 for the Premier. The Premier was priced higher than the Equinox EV LT is priced now. The Bolt EUV was priced at $33,000 for the LT and $38,495 for the Premier.

Speaking of the Equinox, Motorweek gave the Equinox ICE the Best Small Utility award and the Equinox EV won Best of the Year.
https://motorweek.org/drivers-choice...choice-awards/

Martin, would you agree given the time you've had w/the Equinox EV so far?

[Mr_Draco]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

It would be safe to assume that they will be priced comparatively low. Compared to the original Bolt EV the Equinox EV is a bigger more upscale vehicle with more content and longer range. And it is priced near where the original Bolts were priced. The next gen Bolt will slot below the Equinox EV in the Chevrolet portfolio.

The Equinox EV is priced at $34,995 for a base LT, $44,795 for a base RS. When it left the market the Bolt EV base price was $26,500 for LT and Bolt EUV was priced at $27,800 for LT. But keep in mind that for the 2022 model year and the start of 2023, Bolt EV prices were $31,995 for the LT, $35,695 for the Premier. The Premier was priced higher than the Equinox EV LT is priced now. The Bolt EUV was priced at $33,000 for the LT and $38,495 for the Premier.

Now see, for me and people like me that say we would be tempted by a low priced, around town getter, that is still at least $15k too high. I'm talking $20k or under otd (taxes, tag, and title) with a small battery of only 100-150 mile range. Once we enter into the mid-high 30's we are no longer talking about low priced vehicles.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Mr_Draco

Now see, for me and people like me that say we would be tempted by a low priced, around town getter, that is still at least $15k too high. I'm talking $20k or under otd (taxes, tag, and title) with a small battery of only 100-150 mile range. Once we enter into the mid-high 30's we are no longer talking about low priced vehicles.

You can't get an ICE car for that. The best you can do these days is a base trim Chevrolet Trax at $20,400. Options add up quickly.