The Bald Eagle Machine Chronicles

[hesster]

Originally Posted by The_bald_eagle_machine

Tuner said its likely a crank position sensor, and its a 50-50 shot that it needs a re-learn or not.

That sucks, issues like that drive us crazy trying to diagnose them. So "fuel pressure goes from 58psi and dips really hard everytime this issue happens." However you know this happens, indicates that is a big clue the FPCM or a sensor is a culprit.
With the issues I had on my Whipple Camaro, and even though I am a decent mechanical wrench, I got tired of self diagnosis and throwing parts and time at the car trying to fix a unknown issue(s). So I will serve this up as stuff I learned -

So sounds like you have a tuner. If so a good tuner can read a datalog and diagnose many issues. I think those of us who have done mods and want the best out of our cars should have a HP Tuners MPVI3 and a laptop, best $400 you can spend to acquire data. Then a tuner who knows their Sh**, (as many do not and only serve up "canned" performance tunes), can probably analyze the log for a nominal fee. This can save money in the long run instead of throwing parts at the car.

For example, since I am in a rural area and don't have ready access to a Tuner/Dyno, I engaged Ted Jannetty, who not only fixed my issues, but provided me a killer Tune in the process. And he also found "lazy" and tired O2 sensors that I would have never known to be one of the issues. I'm not a sales rep for him, but a tuner like Ted uses DATA to identify any issues and optomize a Tune.

Hope it is as simple as a Crank Sensor, however I would think that would indicate other issues like a CEL, Hard starting and/or stalling, Engine runs rough or misfires, etc.

Let us know.

[The_bald_eagle_machine]

Turns out the Spark plugs were the issue. Or atleast replacing them fixed the issue. Glad to have avoided anything serious. I got my new Autel scanner and cleared the codes which were Fuel trim lean bank 1 and throttle postion sensor code. Cleared those, changed the plugs and took her for a few good rips and she runs great again.

[CamaroDreams76]

Originally Posted by The_bald_eagle_machine

Turns out the Spark plugs were the issue. Or atleast replacing them fixed the issue. Glad to have avoided anything serious. I got my new Autel scanner and cleared the codes which were Fuel trim lean bank 1 and throttle postion sensor code. Cleared those, changed the plugs and took her for a few good rips and she runs great again.

I've gone through probably 3 or 4 throttle position sensors. Super easy swap. I don't think they do good with all the heat. Would be good piece of mind to change that.

[SlowLS1]

Glad to hear the spark plugs fixed it!

[hesster]

Originally Posted by The_bald_eagle_machine

Turns out the Spark plugs were the issue. Or atleast replacing them fixed the issue. Glad to have avoided anything serious. I got my new Autel scanner and cleared the codes which were Fuel trim lean bank 1 and throttle postion sensor code. Cleared those, changed the plugs and took her for a few good rips and she runs great again.

That is good news.
I would not think the Plugs were a major contributor, and based on the pics, did not look that bad. Esp with those codes. Interestingly, my tuner had me gap mine at .040, which is quite more than the .030 usual recommenfation for a blower car. The TPS code is maddening, and is one that can be many things other than the TPS actually being fauity. And, a P0171 Fuel trim lean bank 1 code is set by your vehicle's powertrain control module (PCM) when it detects that the air-to-fuel ratio of your vehicle is too lean. This means that the PCM is relaying that the engine is receiving too much air into the combustion chamber and not enough fuel - nothing to do with Spark Plugs. One would think the exact opposite if Plugs were misfiring? Hope the issue does not resurface, of then time to possibly reassess the Tune.

[The_bald_eagle_machine]

Originally Posted by CamaroDreams76

I've gone through probably 3 or 4 throttle position sensors. Super easy swap. I don't think they do good with all the heat. Would be good piece of mind to change that.

hmmm.... I will have to read the codes again and see if they came back. Is there a procedure for installing a new one or just as simple as replace and move on?

[The_bald_eagle_machine]

Originally Posted by hesster

That is good news.
I would not think the Plugs were a major contributor, and based on the pics, did not look that bad. Esp with those codes. Interestingly, my tuner had me gap mine at .040, which is quite more than the .030 usual recommenfation for a blower car. The TPS code is maddening, and is one that can be many things other than the TPS actually being fauity. And, a P0171 Fuel trim lean bank 1 code is set by your vehicle's powertrain control module (PCM) when it detects that the air-to-fuel ratio of your vehicle is too lean. This means that the PCM is relaying that the engine is receiving too much air into the combustion chamber and not enough fuel - nothing to do with Spark Plugs. One would think the exact opposite if Plugs were misfiring? Hope the issue does not resurface, of then time to possibly reassess the Tune.

That's a fair point...I will need to see if the code resurfaces... If I am oging to revisit the tuner, then I am probably going to guy my cats, and run a pcv line from the air filter to the driver side valve cover for "fresh air venting" and then just get a whole new tune. Hopefully revisions wont cost me a $700 dyno session...

[SSE 4 2SS]

Originally Posted by The_bald_eagle_machine

So 2 months ago, when I got below a half a tank of gas... the car started stumbling and missing when I mashed the gas pedal. I chalked it up to, I can't stomp the gas on a 1/4 tank because I assumed the fuel was sloshing around, because when I filled the tank, no more problems. This past week I took a long 350 mile drive. Car was perfect on the way down. I may have even raced a few cars and had fun on the streets. Car was fine. Then I made the 350 mile drive home, about half way home... more then half a tank of gas.. car doesn't want to go over 3000rpm without a hard stumble/misfire. No check engine light. I got home, pulled the spark plugs. These are TR6 copper plugs, 6500 miles on them. They look ok to me. Popped the rocker covers, and everything looks clean and tight. I ordered new spark plugs just because...

I posted a video on my Instagram of the issue. It feels like fuel or ignition cut. But no check engine light. I don't have a scanner so I can't read any codes. Any thoughts? Is my brand new zl1 pump fried? Again, fuel pressure goes from 58psi and dips really hard everytime this issue happens. But it feels like a fuel/ignition cut... no really sure what the vest way to diagnosecthis is outside of throwing parts at it and frankly I don't have the money for that right now.

With the fuel pressure dipping low @ WOT, you mention a ZL1 fuel pump, and are you letting the factory computer control it or are you in possession of a FPCM.
As an example, Ted Janetty provides one that is pre-programmed for $199.00 if memory serves. I'm also not a salesman for Ted, but he does put out a great product. There are other companies providing FPCM's for the SS Camaro running the ZL1 fuel pump as well.

[hesster]

Originally Posted by SSE 4 2SS

With the fuel pressure dipping low @ WOT, you mention a ZL1 fuel pump, and are you letting the factory computer control it or are you in possession of a FPCM.
As an example, Ted Janetty provides one that is pre-programmed for $199.00 if memory serves. I'm also not a salesman for Ted, but he does put out a great product. There are other companies providing FPCM's for the SS Camaro running the ZL1 fuel pump as well.

SSE makes a great point - one I should have asked about and weighed in on. When I worked with Ted J, he had me install a ZL1 pump, and as part of the tuning process, I did a "Read" on the ECM and FSCM, and sent him the data file. This is done via a MPVI3 to a HP Tuners program on my lap top. The FSCM needed to be reprogramed to play with the ZL1 pump (and my MSD BAP). In other words, it must be either replaced with a tuned unit as SSE indicates or reprogramed for compatibiliity with the ZL1 pump. If it is not, that may be exactly the issue you are seeing with fuel pressure dropping. And that would be a question for your Tuner if the FSCM was programmed.

[The_bald_eagle_machine]

Originally Posted by SSE 4 2SS

With the fuel pressure dipping low @ WOT, you mention a ZL1 fuel pump, and are you letting the factory computer control it or are you in possession of a FPCM.
As an example, Ted Janetty provides one that is pre-programmed for $199.00 if memory serves. I'm also not a salesman for Ted, but he does put out a great product. There are other companies providing FPCM's for the SS Camaro running the ZL1 fuel pump as well.

I did make a strong point with my tuner in regards to programming the ZL1 pump. I thought that I needed the FPCM and he mentioned that you can just program them in HP Tuners to communicate as needed. I think I was hitting a fuel or ignition cut which was causing the dip in the Fuel Pressure. Right before this issue showed its face I do recall giving it the beans and hearing what sounded like a misfiring power band. I don't know. I don't pretend to be a knowledgeable car guy. Honestly, I miss my old 87 trans am... The older motors are so much simpler to work on. This new school stuff is kinda out of my wheel house. Too many sensors, tuning, this and that... I can do anything mechanical, if i know what it is. I've Ls swapped cars before, and bascially rebuilt cars from the ground up... but diagnosing them has never been something I was very good at.

[CamaroDreams76]

Originally Posted by The_bald_eagle_machine

hmmm.... I will have to read the codes again and see if they came back. Is there a procedure for installing a new one or just as simple as replace and move on?

Replace and move on. I have a ported TB so I buy an ACDelco TB and take the electronics side off. It's 4 torqx security screws.

As others said, I've been in the understanding that a ZL1 pump requires the new FPCM.

[hesster]

But maybe check out post #8 in the link.
Just trying to assist a fellow member here.

Been down that road of throwing new parts at parts that are not bad or inop.

In my case, even though I had thrown Throttle Codes, there was absolutely nothing wrong with my TB. The throttle codes and dreaded P2135 Limp mode code can be triggered by many other things besides the TB Actuator (or Accel Pedal Sensor). Again mine was mostly a substandard Tune (which Ted laughed at once he reviewed it), cause it was not aligned well with a Whipple and Blower Cam.

https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=617485

[The_bald_eagle_machine]

Well, I'm really on the fence guys. To put things simply, i love the 5th gen platform, but I'm not in love with it like I am with the Thirdgen platform. One way of putting it is... The Thirdgen was my first love, and the Fifth gen was the "Hot girlfriend" that I got to replace her. I had my 87 Trans Am GTA for 10 years... It's the first real car that I owned, I learned everything I know about wrenching, building, motor swapping, etc from it. I sold it because I was frustrated with the build, and i had a pipe burst in my house and needed funds ASAP. I have missed it ever since.

In my mind, I have a few options...

1. Swap the engine and trans from my Fifth gen into a thirdgen and sell everything that i dont need from the fifth gen including the shell. I would essentially keep the motor, transmission, wheels and tires and probably the driver and passenger seats, as well as possibly the center console. This is the most cost effective option, as the LS3 and TR6060 is a great ls swap combo. Hawks Motorsports sell all the components needed to run the TR6060 including mounts, shifters etc... This allows me to keep my supercharger, new clutch etc... Which is money I won't get back if I sell the car and build from there.

2. Sell my fifth gen. Realistically, I would have to get $25k for it for me to justify this. Converting it back to stock would cost me money because I don't have things like the stock suspension, driveshaft, or exhaust... I just put in a new clutch which was close to $3k all in. Over $7k in the supercharger setup... All of which has less than 5k miles on it. I don't think that $25k is unreasonable, especially considering she only has 51k miles on her, but I also know that the fifth gen market has seemingly crashed in the last few months because I have seen nice examples in the sub $20k range that aren't selling.

3. Keep the fifth gen and VERY SLOWLY build it over time with the pennies that I have left over after paying my mortgage and making sure my 2 year old daughter has everything that she needs. Honestly, this is my least favorite option.... I am not in love with the fifth gen as i mentioned already, so keeping it feels like staying with a girl just because she is great in bed, but its a toxic relationship and just costing you alot of money and your sanity.

[CamaroDreams76]

You're going to get a lot of mix on this. I for one love the 5th gen but then again it's kind of like your 3rd gen. I bought my car as a gift to myself and I've been building it over the years. I've worked on it plenty of hours and many of those hours is busting knuckles with my father so that's even more special.

I personally would just keep the 5th gen or sell it. The 3rd gen and swapping in the 5th gen parts seems like a headache and nothing is a guarantee that the 3rd gen will work trouble free. There's always that chance that it'll nickle and dime you and then you won't have time or money to put into that. Then you take an even larger financial loss trying to fix that or sell it as is. Nothing is really a guarantee.

But then again the 3rd gen is what you love. So if the right one pops up who knows.