2010 Mustang

[AZZ28]

The big question is whether Ford will upgrade this chassis to allow for IRS, or will it still be the antiquated live rear axle?!

[Congoman775]

Originally Posted by syr74

These are accurate minimum power ratings, not speculation.



I wouldn't bet on that. The above is a worst case power to weight scenario for the 2011 Mustang GT. Horsepower and torque will both be greater than the numbers quoted here, we just don't yet know by exactly how much although the numbers are getting clearer. I will say that some folks may be surprised by just how much greater hp and torque will chime in at than those minimum figures. And frankly, a minimum 300lb weight advantage isn't insignificant either and is worth about 25hp and 25lb-ft of torque or better all on it's own. 2011 is going to be an interesting model year.



Ford could sell the 2011 Mustang GT for the same amount of money they sell the existing model for and still do very, very nicely in terms of profit. Ford has their fair share of profitability issues, but Mustang isn't one of them.

A. wrong.

anything you dont know is speculation. And you dont know.

B. so your telling me that the new mustang is going to have a bigger engine, but not ad weight? interesting. I dont think it takes a whole lot of logic to see the new mustang (with more parts) is going to weigh closer to GT500 lbs over the hopefull 3600.

C. Ford could sell the mustang for the same price yes... or they could stand on street corners and give them away.

Newsflash: the company is sinking. They want a larger margin of profit. expect the new Rustang to come in around 30k-35k, AND underperform its competition.

[Congoman775]

Originally Posted by AZZ28

The big question is whether Ford will upgrade this chassis to allow for IRS, or will it still be the antiquated live rear axle?!

its still going to be the same axle as a mustang your grandfather would of had as a kid.


As for the V6... expect a boost of up to 250hp, no reason for them to push it beyond that. people who buy the v6 Mustang arent looking for performance.

[DGthe3]

Threads merged

[syr74]

Originally Posted by Congoman775

A. wrong.

anything you dont know is speculation. And you dont know.

Actually, I'm not wrong, because I know that the engine will make more than 400hp and 360lb-ft of torque....I just don't yet know how much more. I've said it before and I'll say it again, you can choose to believe it or not...but it is accurate...and I'll continue to post it for the benefit of those who want to know what is coming.

Originally Posted by Congoman

B. so your telling me that the new mustang is going to have a bigger engine, but not ad weight? interesting. I dont think it takes a whole lot of logic to see the new mustang (with more parts) is going to weigh closer to GT500 lbs over the hopefull 3600.

Who said it wasn't going to add weight? 3600lb is a gain in weight for the GT. Most GT's weigh in at 100lb less than that.

Originally Posted by Congoman

C. Ford could sell the mustang for the same price yes... or they could stand on street corners and give them away. Newsflash: the company is sinking. They want a larger margin of profit. expect the new Rustang to come in around 30k-35k, AND underperform its competition.

Weren't you just railing about speculation? I fail to see why you are taking this so personally. The truth is that Mustang has been an extremely profitable car for Ford and they have admitted as much on several occasions. Nothing coming for 2011 indicates a drastic change in the cost equation for this car, so I have no idea upon what you are basing your argument that the car will increase significantly in price. In fact, don't be surprised if the car drops a bit in price.

Originally Posted by Congoman

As for the V6... expect a boost of up to 250hp, no reason for them to push it beyond that. People who buy the v6 Mustang aren't looking for performance.

For the 2010MY I don't expect any performance increase at all, but then 4.0L info for the 2010MY is basically non-existent so I could be missing something here. As for 2011, while V6 engine output is still somewhat fuzzy we do know that the V6 engines output will be somewhere above 265hp. But then that info is easy to come by. The most basic 3.5L version of the Duratec pumps that much out already, and the version the Mustang will receive will have undergone something of an upgrade.

[Pushing_Tin]

Why oh why can't they put an IRS in that thing?

[Max]

IRS is not the answer to everything, it will brake too.

[Congoman775]

Originally Posted by syr74

Actually, I'm not wrong, because I know that the engine will make more than 400hp and 360lb-ft of torque....I just don't yet know how much more. I've said it before and I'll say it again, you can choose to believe it or not...but it is accurate...and I'll continue to post it for the benefit of those who want to know what is coming.

No... you don't. You think you do. Nothing has been officially released. So you don't know.


Who said it wasn't going to add weight? 3600lb is a gain in weight for the GT. Most GT's weigh in at 100lb less than that.

really. my buddy has a GT, stock it weighed in at 3596lbs, basically 3600. since then, it has only gone up. Take note of EVERY high performance mustang that has ever been made. it adds significant amounts of weight. GT500, 3900lbs, Rousche 4200lbs...


Weren't you just railing about speculation? I fail to see why you are taking this so personally. The truth is that Mustang has been an extremely profitable car for Ford and they have admitted as much on several occasions. Nothing coming for 2011 indicates a drastic change in the cost equation for this car, so I have no idea upon what you are basing your argument that the car will increase significantly in price. In fact, don't be surprised if the car drops a bit in price.

yes i was just talking about speculation, and thats what i just did. Speculated. i didn't say ' i KNOW the car will cost $X .

im not arguing that Ford doesnt profit off the mustang... im arguing they are going under despite the mustang and need to increase profits. the Car dropping in price is a good sign the company is having a 'going out of business sale'

For the 2010MY I don't expect any performance increase at all, but then 4.0L info for the 2010MY is basically non-existent so I could be missing something here. As for 2011, while V6 engine output is still somewhat fuzzy we do know that the V6 engines output will be somewhere above 265hp. But then that info is easy to come by. The most basic 3.5L version of the Duratec pumps that much out already, and the version the Mustang will receive will have undergone something of an upgrade.

i would be surprised if the V6 has the same output. They are going to have a hard time moving units.

[Georgie]

well wait and see 3596 is highest ive read for s197. 05s were 3450. with a tank of gas 3500 and some. also, ford has launched weight saving program across all models; i guarantee v6 will be lighter if duratec is used; gt will be heavier. we will see by how much

[Georgie]

fords sra is fine for roadcourse with some upgrades or the strip as is. its on uneven roads where you really see the difference irs makes. the roush mustang is still an sra but adds some roush suspension upgrades. performs fine on a track.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by Congoman775

No... you don't. You think you do. Nothing has been officially released. So you don't know.

You'll excuse me if I don't agree with your notion of a litmus test on what I do or don't know. Like I said, it is your prerogative to believe it or not. When iron hits the road and everything I say is accurate, we'll just chalk it up to me being a lucky guesser.

Originally Posted by Congoman

really. my buddy has a GT, stock it weighed in at 3596lbs, basically 3600. since then, it has only gone up.

This argument only works if you argue that every GT weighs the same. Some current model GT coupes actually just break 3600lb, while some don't even touch 3500lb coming in at 3400lb and change. Most GT's I've seen cross the scale are around 3500lb, and the new one will weigh in at about 100lb more than the current model with most models hitting right around the 3600lb mark.

As for models adding weight. When the car has gotten larger, yes, it has gotten heavier. The GT500 weighs more than the Terminator did largely because the car is bigger than it used to be, particularly in terms of footprint where weight really gets added on. But the S197 revision is actually just a bit smaller than the outgoing model, so I'm not sure where you are finding relevance here.

I'm not arguing that Ford doesnt profit off the mustang... im arguing they are going under despite the mustang and need to increase profits. the Car dropping in price is a good sign the company is having a 'going out of business sale'

So now you are speculating that Ford is going out of business if the Mustang gets cheaper? Ford is the most fiscally sound of the Big Three right now, even if that isn't saying much. If what you say is an accurate summation of what cash-strapped companies do (it isn't) shouldn't GM's prices be dropping across the board given their cash flow situation? I hardly think a 32k Camaro or an even more expensive Challenger is an indication of price chopping.

The truth is that neither a price increase or a price decrease alone tells us anything about any automakers situation...not if the car itself remains profitable at those numbers.

Originally Posted by Congoman

i would be surprised if the V6 has the same output. They are going to have a hard time moving units.

I am uncertain how lowering the output of the Duratec is going to help here? The PiP 3.0L Duratec they thought about using in the Fusion and possibly the Mustang only offered a 1mpg improvement in fuel economy over the existing 3.5L V6 despite a loss of 25hp and about 40lb-ft of torque when compared to the larger engine. And that entire plan eventually got axed as not being worth the trouble despite the fact that it was effectively ready to go. Given the fact that it is hardly in a high state of tune as it is a de-tuned 3.5L would be hard pressed to yield even the 1mpg fuel economy improvement the PiP 3.0L did in testing even if you cranked hp down to 240hp or a bit less than that. Ford wont detune the 3.5L because it wont accomplish anything, it is as simple as that.

[Congoman775]

Originally Posted by syr74

You'll excuse me if I don't agree with your notion of a litmus test on what I do or don't know. Like I said, it is your prerogative to believe it or not. When iron hits the road and everything I say is accurate, we'll just chalk it up to me being a lucky guesser.



This argument only works if you argue that every GT weighs the same. Some current model GT coupes actually just break 3600lb, while some don't even touch 3500lb coming in at 3400lb and change. Most GT's I've seen cross the scale are around 3500lb, and the new one will weigh in at about 100lb more than the current model with most models hitting right around the 3600lb mark.

As for models adding weight. When the car has gotten larger, yes, it has gotten heavier. The GT500 weighs more than the Terminator did largely because the car is bigger than it used to be, particularly in terms of footprint where weight really gets added on. But the S197 revision is actually just a bit smaller than the outgoing model, so I'm not sure where you are finding relevance here.



So now you are speculating that Ford is going out of business if the Mustang gets cheaper? Ford is the most fiscally sound of the Big Three right now, even if that isn't saying much. If what you say is an accurate summation of what cash-strapped companies do (it isn't) shouldn't GM's prices be dropping across the board given their cash flow situation? I hardly think a 32k Camaro or an even more expensive Challenger is an indication of price chopping.

The truth is that neither a price increase or a price decrease alone tells us anything about any automakers situation...not if the car itself remains profitable at those numbers.



I am uncertain how lowering the output of the Duratec is going to help here? The PiP 3.0L Duratec they thought about using in the Fusion and possibly the Mustang only offered a 1mpg improvement in fuel economy over the existing 3.5L V6 despite a loss of 25hp and about 40lb-ft of torque when compared to the larger engine. And that entire plan eventually got axed as not being worth the trouble despite the fact that it was effectively ready to go. Given the fact that it is hardly in a high state of tune as it is a de-tuned 3.5L would be hard pressed to yield even the 1mpg fuel economy improvement the PiP 3.0L did in testing even if you cranked hp down to 240hp or a bit less than that. Ford wont detune the 3.5L because it wont accomplish anything, it is as simple as that.

you display both the negligence of hard facts and the willingness to selectively read which makes me believe you are unable to continue this conversation.

I hope you guessed right, for the sake of the mustang.

However, i hope your on this site because you recognize support the Camaro. The same car which will be dusting the streets with mustangs and challengers for years to come.

[Kyle2k]

Originally Posted by Congoman775

you display both the negligence of hard facts and the willingness to selectively read which makes me believe you are unable to continue this conversation.

I hope you guessed right, for the sake of the mustang.

However, i hope your on this site because you recognize support the Camaro. The same car which will be dusting the streets with mustangs and challengers for years to come.

I have a feeling I'm going to regret stepping in here, but.... Who has the hard facts...I really don't see any...from either of you. All though he is here to stir the pot, this is "his car" just like we have the Camaro, so I would expect him to have a bit more information about it. I remember Captain Sam saying the ls3 would be in the Camaro almost half a year before it happened.

[Congoman775]

Originally Posted by Kyle2k

I have a feeling I'm going to regret stepping in here, but.... Who has the hard facts...I really don't see any...from either of you. All though he is here to stir the pot, this is "his car" just like we have the Camaro, so I would expect him to have a bit more information about it. I remember Captain Sam saying the ls3 would be in the Camaro almost half a year before it happened.

he had good guesses.

like i said before... i hope he guessed right