Electric Vehicles

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by Mr_Draco

Martin, do you have any insight to the new VinFast EV plant opening up here North Carolina?

Do you know anything about their EV's that you could share?

If you trust AI

"VinFast, the Vietnamese electric vehicle manufacturer, is planning to build a $4 billion automobile assembly plant and battery manufacturing facility in Chatham County, North Carolina. The project, announced in March 2022, was initially slated to begin production in 2024, but has been delayed, with the latest target now set for 2028. The facility is expected to create 7,500 jobs and contribute significantly to the local economy. "

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Mr_Draco

Martin, do you have any insight to the new VinFast EV plant opening up here North Carolina?

Do you know anything about their EV's that you could share?

They have plans to build the plant in North Carolina but those plans have been delayed. Whether or not they ever complete those plans in the current environment is anybody’s guess.

I’m gonna stay neutral as far as discussing their product. They have (3) models planned for sale in the US and Canada. First product has launched. Not doing well in the US. Doing a bit better in Canada but not hitting the market hard. This is not unrelated to plant delays. I’d suggest watching Throttle House and Kim Java videos of their test drives with VF8 and draw your own conclusions from their experiences.

[Mr_Draco]

I'm not far from where the plant is suppose to be built and yesterday is the first I've even heard of the company. If they can't even get the word out around the area where the plant is going, how they expect the rest of the US to know about them.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Mr_Draco

Martin, do you have any insight to the new VinFast EV plant opening up here North Carolina?

Do you know anything about their EV's that you could share?

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

If you trust AI

"VinFast, the Vietnamese electric vehicle manufacturer, is planning to build a $4 billion automobile assembly plant and battery manufacturing facility in Chatham County, North Carolina. The project, announced in March 2022, was initially slated to begin production in 2024, but has been delayed, with the latest target now set for 2028. The facility is expected to create 7,500 jobs and contribute significantly to the local economy. "

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

They have plans to build the plant in North Carolina but those plans have been delayed. Whether or not they ever complete those plans in the current environment is anybody’s guess.

I’m gonna stay neutral as far as discussing their product. They have (3) models planned for sale in the US and Canada. First product has launched. Not doing well in the US. Doing a bit better in Canada but not hitting the market hard. This is not unrelated to plant delays. I’d suggest watching Throttle House and Kim Java videos of their test drives with VF8 and draw your own conclusions from their experiences.

Just a little coincidence…Spending a little quality time this weekend in Vancouver and came across this taxi. VinFast VF8.

Interesting thing about Vancouver and all of British Columbia to be exact. The concentration of EVs here is wild. I see a lot in the Detroit metro area. I see a lot whenever I go to LA or Vegas, but NOTHING like what I’m seeing in Vancouver. Played a little game while sitting in the backseat of Ubers. Half of the Ubers I rode in were Tesla. The others were a Toyota bZ4x EV, a Toyota Corolla hybrid, and a Prius. Whenever we’d stop at an intersection I’d look around and see if there was more or less than 3 EVs at the same intersection or driving through. Only two times that there was less than three EVs stopped at or driving through the intersections where we stopped. Talked to one of the Uber drivers. He does not have the ability to charge at home. He has to stop at Superchargers and pay the going rate for electricity. About $0.45. Even so, he is money ahead with his Tesla. He says gasoline has recently come down from about $7 or $8 a gallon to about $6.50.

Between that and no oil changes or other maintenance except for washer fluid he says he has reduced his total spend.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

I was in Iceland a few weeks ago and EV's are everywhere. So many EV's.

Not surprising given gasoline is like $10/gal and, due to their geothermal and hydroelectric capability, electricity is super cheap. Iceland is not a very big market, but EV's own it.

[docwra]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

I was in Iceland a few weeks ago and EV's are everywhere. So many EV's.

Not surprising given gasoline is like $10/gal and, due to their geothermal and hydroelectric capability, electricity is super cheap. Iceland is not a very big market, but EV's own it.

Most of Europe is heading this way, my E-Tron costs about 1/10th what a Q7 would to "fuel up", pretty much every taxi here is EV or hybrid now and BYD's and MG's are rapidly becoming commonplace.

The tech and the infrastructure are pretty much there for us now and EVs are difficult to ignore when they are *so* much cheaper to run than anything else

[Ryanbabz71]

We added to our fleet of vehicles recently. Wife wanted a Tesla Model 3. Nice car and has its niche.

[FarmerFran]

GM Re‑Embraces Gas Cars as EV Dream Hits a Major Pothole https://share.google/cUBnQLf06Txv1Kwlo

[olrocker]

Mary Barra makes $30m/yr.

I could have told GM not to invest billions into EV development 5 years ago for $200k/yr until I turn 62 in 14 years then and a fixed pension of $5,000/month for life.

Seems like I could have saved them a lot of money.

But she knows more than us uneducated hillbillies.

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

GM Re‑Embraces Gas Cars as EV Dream Hits a Major Pothole https://share.google/cUBnQLf06Txv1Kwlo

We can absorb some of the cost of that manufacturing facility with more ICE production if EV demand goes down.

"We need more ICE profits so we can make up for EV losses, but we still insist on eventually making only EVs!"

Well, eventually I'm sure the policy tables will turn again, the price of gasoline will be artificially inflated, EVs will be subsidized, ICE will handed insane MPG/efficiency requirements, all over again, and we'll be told, again, how superior EVs are.

...circle of life, Deja vu, and all that.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Capricio

"We need more ICE profits so we can make up for EV losses, but we still insist on eventually making only EVs!"

Well, eventually I'm sure the policy tables will turn again, the price of gasoline will be artificially inflated, EVs will be subsidized, ICE will handed insane MPG/efficiency requirements, all over again, and we'll be told, again, how superior EVs are.

...circle of life, Deja vu, and all that.

GM's position is less an issue of policy trends and more an issue of technology development. In roughly a decade EVs have progressed from being sub 100 hp sub-100 mile range glorified golf carts to vehicles hitting the street with 1,000+ hp, 500+ mile range and ability to completely obliterate Nurburgring times of multi-million dollar ICE cars. And the technology growth is just starting, compared to ICE technology growth which, while amazing, is pretty much at its peak after about 100 years. There's just not that much more potential to draw from ICE technology. GM's position is that to be relevant 20, 30, 40 years from now they need to be at or near the top of the hill on EV technology now and stay relevant through continuous development of EV technology. Continuing ICE product gives them the benefit of being able to manage EV development at a less than frantic pace. GM has stated in 2024 that they have already achieved variable cost profitability for their entire EV portfolio. Variable cost is material + labor + marketing. Does not include cost of facilities or capital tooling.

Bottom picture - Mitsubishi iMiEV from the 2010s. 62 hp, 59 mile range.
Middle Picture - Zeekr 001R 1,300 ps (1,282 hp) that broke several N'Ring records. On sale in China. EDIT: I misspoke Zeekr 001R did not set N'Ring records. the 001 version (536 hp) broke the world record for high speed drifting. 129 mph on a drift. The 001R did run the Ring but that time has not yet been disclosed.
Top Picture - Lucid Air Sapphire - 1,234 hp 472 mile range. Only production vehicle so far that stomps the Tesla Model S Plaid.

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

GM's position is less an issue of policy trends and more an issue of technology development. In roughly a decade EVs have progressed from being sub 100 hp sub-100 mile range glorified golf carts to vehicles hitting the street with 1,000+ hp, 500+ mile range and ability to completely obliterate Nurburgring times of multi-million dollar ICE cars. And the technology growth is just starting, compared to ICE technology growth which, while amazing, is pretty much at it's peak after about 100 years. There's just not that much more potential to draw from ICE technology. GM's position is that to be relevant 20, 30, 40 years from now they need to be at or near the top of the hill on EV technology now and stay relevant through continuous development of EV technology. Continuing ICE product gives them the benefit of being able to manage EV development at a less than frantic pace.

For now, at least, I think this illustrates that when regulations, fuel prices, subsidies, and other forms of government meddling are removed (to a degree), ICE is still competitive and desired by consumers. "Win or lose", I'm just glad to see consumers having more control again, and fewer government forcing functions in place. All the comments after the article are crying/lamentation about the "lost opportunity" to force people to adopt EVs through policy.

EVs still need cheaper, improved, solid state chemistry (not made from Chinese sourced Unobtainium), and I think OEMs need to achieve a more modular battery construction to allow batteries to be lifecycled separately from the rest of the vehicle (prob never happen), or they will continue to have high prices, high insurance rates, and rapid depreciation.

...unless they're made in China, or, we're actually allowed to mine something domestically.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Capricio

For now, at least, I think this illustrates that when regulations, fuel prices, subsidies, and other forms of government meddling are removed (to a degree), ICE is still competitive and desired by consumers. "Win or lose", I'm just glad to see consumers having more control again, and fewer government forcing functions in place. All the comments after the article are crying/lamentation about the "lost opportunity" to force people to adopt EVs through policy.

EVs still need cheaper, improved, solid state chemistry (not made from Chinese sourced Unobtainium), and I think OEMs need to achieve a more modular battery construction to allow batteries to be lifecycled separately from the rest of the vehicle (prob never happen), or they will continue to have high prices, high insurance rates, and rapid depreciation.

...unless they're made in China, or, we're actually allowed to mine something domestically.

A lot of what you are suggesting is already happening. GM's battery system is modular and allows for the replacement of individual modules or cells. Other automakers (not Tesla) are going down similar paths. Tesla is in the mode of trying to optimize cost and modularization increases cost.

The co-founder of Tesla left the company several years ago to set up Redwood Materials. RM is the biggest and most technologically advanced recycler of lithium ion battery materials. Not just EV batteries. Any lithium ion batteries. This video is worth the 17 minute watch https://youtu.be/t04uTCoIlg0?si=EMG-Xnws4X6L3slI

GM just last week increased their involvement with RM to include the use of used EV batteries that still have significant life and value as storage devices. These repurposed batteries will be used to power GM data centers.

As far as solid state, pretty much the same materials used in liquid substrate batteries (today's standards) are used in solid-state batteries. Solid-state doesn't bring any magic that replaces lithium, cobalt, manganese, nickel or other materials used in today's battery. The point of solid state is to eliminate the liquid substrate and thereby make the batteries less reactive and improve safety. They will also improve power density so smaller, lighter batteries can be used to achieve the same power and range as today's batteries. That will make for lighter vehicles due to lower kWh capacity requirements. The glass half empty view of solid state is that there are currently no production process that produce it at scale for anywhere near marketable prices / kWh. Further development will eventually get it there though. China will continue to be the majority supplier of materials whether its current batteries or solid state batteries.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by Capricio

"We need more ICE profits so we can make up for EV losses, but we still insist on eventually making only EVs!"

Well, eventually I'm sure the policy tables will turn again, the price of gasoline will be artificially inflated, EVs will be subsidized, ICE will handed insane MPG/efficiency requirements, all over again, and we'll be told, again, how superior EVs are.

...circle of life, Deja vu, and all that.

Not if Vance, Rubio, DeSantis, or some combination of the three win in ‘28……

The country is done with CAFE and the EPA.