Electric Vehicles

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

As far as solid state, pretty much the same materials used in liquid substrate batteries (today's standards) are used in solid-state batteries. Solid-state doesn't bring any magic that replaces lithium, cobalt, manganese, nickel or other materials used in today's battery. The point of solid state is to eliminate the liquid substrate and thereby make the batteries less reactive and improve safety. They will also improve power density so smaller, lighter batteries can be used to achieve the same power and range as today's batteries. That will make for lighter vehicles due to lower kWh capacity requirements.

Solid State Sodium anode free is the latest hype cycle topic flooding my newsfeed. I thought its supposed to be free of Unobtainium element dependencies. Anyways, I'm sure you're right, EVs will improve over time, until then, I'll wait. At least, for now, EVs will have to compete in the marketplace on a somewhat level playing field for once.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Capricio

Solid State Sodium anode free is the latest hype cycle topic flooding my newsfeed. I thought its supposed to be free of Unobtainium element dependencies. Anyways, I'm sure you're right, EVs will improve over time, until then, I'll wait. At least, for now, EVs will have to compete in the marketplace on a somewhat level playing field for once.

That's just for the anode. The cathode and other components still require various formulations of lithium, cobalt, manganese, et cetera.

As for a level playing field let's keep in mind that through most of the growth cycle of EVs there were no incentives. It wasn't until the middle of the first Obama term that there were incentives and those incentives were capped at 200,000 units per car company. Tesla and GM blew through those incentives by the end of 2018, so any vehicles they sold after they exhausted their volume cap carried no incentives at all. The Biden administration incentives didn't start until August 2022. So all Tesla and GM EVs sold from 2019 through the start of the credits in August 2022 were sold without incentives. Both companies simply reduced the prices of their vehicles during that time span. I expect to see that happen again as both are much further down the cost curve than anybody else selling EVs in the US. Similar to how Toyota is so far ahead of anbody else on cost of hybrids that they can afford to put hybrids on practically every vehicle as a way to avoid investing more in EVs. Even so, they are also investing in EVs. Just slower than Tesla and GM.

[FarmerFran]

https://caredge.com/guides/electric-...hare-and-sales

[FarmerFran]

Just FORD

https://www.best-selling-cars.com/us...ales-by-model/

[FarmerFran]

In 2024 Ford Sold 750K+ F series trucks. Over 2x the total EV sales in the USA

[Devstrike]

There will be EVs but looking at the data America is Truck Country they want what they want. They basically forced Stellantis hand and returned the Hemi to the Ram 1500 and admitted Tim Kuniskis admitted to journalists that they made a mistake. American Consumers and the EPA do not see eye to eye. Based on teasers at Dodge and Ram the Hellcat is probably returning to the Charger and the Ram TRX probably is making a come back.

Those are basically my observations so far but if that is happening to one Automotive company I am sure the others have paid attention. Americans are not budging so far and its like FarmerFran said The F Series trucks alone sold twice as much as the total EV sales in the country. The old phrase money talks comes to mind here.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Devstrike

There will be EVs but looking at the data America is Truck Country they want what they want. They basically forced Stellantis hand and returned the Hemi to the Ram 1500 and admitted Tim Kuniskis admitted to journalists that they made a mistake. American Consumers and the EPA do not see eye to eye. Based on teasers at Dodge and Ram the Hellcat is probably returning to the Charger and the Ram TRX probably is making a come back.

Those are basically my observations so far but if that is happening to one Automotive company I am sure the others have paid attention. Americans are not budging so far and its like FarmerFran said The F Series trucks alone sold twice as much as the total EV sales in the country. The old phrase money talks comes to mind here.

Stellantis mistake was not so much electric vs Hemi, but more Hurricane vs Hemi. The Hemi is directly replaced by variants of the Hurricane inline 6. Ram's and Jeep's intent was to replace the 5.7, 6.4, and 6.2SC with varying power levels of the Inline V6 T and Twin Turbo. One thing where they will have their work cut out for them... The STLA platform that the Charger uses is designed around the inline 6, not around a big V8. A lot of redesign is required to fit a Hemi in that thing. Under current design it appears the shock towers would need to be moved. Not an insignificant change for a brand new platform.

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Stellantis mistake was not so much electric vs Hemi, but more Hurricane vs Hemi. The Hemi is directly replaced by variants of the Hurricane inline 6. Ram's and Jeep's intent was to replace the 5.7, 6.4, and 6.2SC with varying power levels of the Inline V6 T and Twin Turbo. One thing where they will have their work cut out for them... The STLA platform that the Charger uses is designed around the inline 6, not around a big V8. A lot of redesign is required to fit a Hemi in that thing. Under current design it appears the shock towers would need to be moved. Not an insignificant change for a brand new platform.

Ahh I will come back to this...will leave with the HIMI being the slowest of them all for way too long, in terms of trucks. They fixed it and now it ROCKS! I know I own one.

Too many thoughts on this.

[Devstrike]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Stellantis mistake was not so much electric vs Hemi, but more Hurricane vs Hemi. The Hemi is directly replaced by variants of the Hurricane inline 6. Ram's and Jeep's intent was to replace the 5.7, 6.4, and 6.2SC with varying power levels of the Inline V6 T and Twin Turbo. One thing where they will have their work cut out for them... The STLA platform that the Charger uses is designed around the inline 6, not around a big V8. A lot of redesign is required to fit a Hemi in that thing. Under current design it appears the shock towers would need to be moved. Not an insignificant change for a brand new platform.

Based on the teaser Dodge put on on social media made it look like and from the engine sound in the teaser that the Hellcat was returning. Sounds like they will make it so they can fit the V8s back into the charger. The Electric Charger wasn't a big hit.


FarmerFran, all the trucks still seem the same to me Ecoboost, Hurricane, V8s etc. My Camaro spoiled me the only truck that put a smile on my face was the TRX that Ram had. Other than that they were all not under powered but to me felt the same some a little quicker some a little slower. They all seemed fine V8 or turbo charged V6. The 2.0 Crosstrek (I know its not a truck) is the only thing I could not stand in acceleration. At the end of the day in the Halfton market I would probably take the Hemi cause I know how to fix it when if something goes wrong from past experience and Power was good for a truck imo. If I want fast I have my Camaro.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Devstrike

Based on the teaser Dodge put on on social media made it look like and from the engine sound in the teaser that the Hellcat was returning. Sounds like they will make it so they can fit the V8s back into the charger. The Electric Charger wasn't a big hit.


FarmerFran, all the trucks still seem the same to me Ecoboost, Hurricane, V8s etc. My Camaro spoiled me the only truck that put a smile on my face was the TRX that Ram had. Other than that they were all not under powered but to me felt the same some a little quicker some a little slower. They all seemed fine V8 or turbo charged V6. The 2.0 Crosstrek is the only thing I could not stand in acceleration. At the end of the day in the Halfton market I would probably take the Hemi cause I know how to fix it when if something goes wrong from past experience and Power was good for a truck imo. If I want fast I have my Camaro.

Not saying they won't put the Hemi in the Charger. I'm just saying it doesn't fit as is. And making significant change to a platform to fit an engine that doesn't fit typically takes a couple years and costs about a hundred $M or more depending on what you have to do to get it in there. Given the current state of muscle car sales (about 40,000 Mustangs a year with no competition) you're looking at on the low end adding $2,500 in cost per unit BEFORE you account for the cost of the Hemi itself. If Stellantis feels that's worth it, more power to 'em (pun intended). Getting it back in the trucks is not that big a deal. But getting it into the cars is a big tear-up.

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by Devstrike

Based on the teaser Dodge put on on social media made it look like and from the engine sound in the teaser that the Hellcat was returning. Sounds like they will make it so they can fit the V8s back into the charger. The Electric Charger wasn't a big hit.


FarmerFran, all the trucks still seem the same to me Ecoboost, Hurricane, V8s etc. My Camaro spoiled me the only truck that put a smile on my face was the TRX that Ram had. Other than that they were all not under powered but to me felt the same some a little quicker some a little slower. They all seemed fine V8 or turbo charged V6. The 2.0 Crosstrek (I know its not a truck) is the only thing I could not stand in acceleration. At the end of the day in the Halfton market I would probably take the Hemi cause I know how to fix it when if something goes wrong from past experience and Power was good for a truck imo. If I want fast I have my Camaro.

To each there own but my HO rund 4 flat to 60 and high 12s. With the tune high 11s. The HOs are out running thr TRX

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

To each there own but my HO rund 4 flat to 60 and high 12s. With the tune high 11s. The HOs are out running thr TRX

I guess I'm in a minority, but some people, like me, just flat out do not want forced induction in a gas truck that may have towing duties. I don't care if it can run a 3.0 second 0to60, and an 11 second quarter-mile. All other things being equal, FI *always* reduces longevity (higher temps and pressures), and increases complexity. I look to trucks for dependability and longevity, not quarter mile times.

I also can't bring myself to "appreciate" an OEM dialing up a boost controller and selling it at a higher price/performance tier. Just sell the engine at in its best configuration for performance and reliability across all platforms/tiers. Otherwise, it seems like you're paying for a compromise on one vs the other.

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by Capricio

I guess I'm in a minority, but some people, like me, just flat out do not want forced induction in a gas truck that may have towing duties. I don't care if it can run a 3.0 second 0to60, and an 11 second quarter-mile. All other things being equal, FI *always* reduces longevity (higher temps and pressures), and increases complexity. I look to trucks for dependability and longevity, not quarter mile times.

I also can't bring myself to "appreciate" an OEM dialing up a boost controller and selling it at a higher price/performance tier. Just sell the engine at in its best configuration for performance and reliability across all platforms/tiers. Otherwise, it seems like you're paying for a compromise on one vs the other.

The the NA GM 6.2L?

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

The the NA GM 6.2L?

2025 model year? Sure.

I qualified my earlier statement with a broad "all other things being equal", so, excluding specific manufacturing process defects or recalls.

How about a 6.0 LQ4 or L96? 18 or so years of continuous production, no major issues.

(Getting off topic for the EV thread.)