COMPLIMENTS: Camaro vs. Almost Any Other New Car

[alrox]

Originally Posted by Stew

My experiences and experiences of people I know show that is flawed, if it was 100% true we would all be having major issues, correct?

Not correct. You should look at what those numbers mean.

Originally Posted by Stew

And saying the more you buy from a company the chance you have of getting a bad apple is true no matter what brand you buy.

This is true, but short sighted. Any car maker can produce a single bad car. The poll shows that Chyrsler makes more bad cars than others do.

[bigearl]

Originally Posted by alrox

Polls have been proven many times to be reliable. The results are always consistent as well: Chrysler comes in far below average every time.

Why do you think they come in below average?

The Stratus.

But let me ask you a question Alrox. Did you staunchly stand beside Chevrolet when they were scoring poorly on these JD Powers surveys? I mean they're still below average on initial quality. Are you going to ditch whatever cars you have for a Porsche or Acura? Because if I'm going to use what you provided as evidence, then that's what you need to do.

In fact, I'd say that the logical conclusion to using JD Powers or Consumer Reports or whatever as your anti-Chrysler argument is that if you bought a GM product between 1980 and 1999 then you haven't got a leg to stand on.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by alrox

Not correct. You should look at what those numbers mean.



This is true, but short sighted. Any car maker can produce a single bad car. The poll shows that Chyrsler makes more bad cars than others do.

I am sorry, but polls are not scientific fact, merely the opinion of those polled. Again my experience is totally oposite of these apparent polls.

[alrox]

Originally Posted by bigearl

The Stratus.

But let me ask you a question Alrox. Did you staunchly stand beside Chevrolet when they were scoring poorly on these JD Powers surveys?

No. Chevrolet makes poor products as well. I think Chevrolet still relies on worthless SUV's too much even after wasting billions on them they didn't deserve. The company should be in bankrupcy hearings right along with Chrysler.

Originally Posted by bigearl

Are you going to ditch whatever cars you have for a Porsche or Acura? Because if I'm going to use what you provided as evidence, then that's what you need to do.

No I'm not. Neither of those companies make a product I want regardless of quality.

Originally Posted by bigearl

In fact, I'd say that the logical conclusion to using JD Powers or Consumer Reports or whatever as your anti-Chrysler argument is that if you bought a GM product between 1980 and 1999 then you haven't got a leg to stand on.

I have never owned a GM product between MY 1980 and 1999.

Chrysler has historically, recently and consistently come in under average in quality and satisfaction. They are a poor performing car company and the majority of the american public agrees with me.

[alrox]

Originally Posted by Stew

I am sorry, but polls are not scientific fact, merely the opinion of those polled. Again my experience is totally oposite of these apparent polls.

I am sorry as well, but the quality poll is not 'opinion', they are 'facts' Real people had real problems with their cars and reported them to JD Power. Nothing more, nothing less.

JD Power does a very wide poll and Chrysler has had poor performance for all of modern history.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by alrox

I am sorry as well, but the quality poll is not 'opinion', they are 'facts' Real people had real problems with their cars and reported them to JD Power. Nothing more, nothing less.

JD Power does a very wide poll and Chrysler has had poor performance for all of modern history.

Um, no, a poll is an attemopt at a statistic, what was the size of their control group? Were they from various regions? Where the problems major or minor issues? What is their stated margin of error (there is always one with any kind of poll). Have you ever owned a Chrysler product as I have and do to be spouting the make crap cars? Didn't think so. Any Lemming that goes by a poll in a consumer rag such as JD powers and Consumer Reports (don't even get me started here).

[alrox]

Originally Posted by Stew

Um, no, a poll is an attemopt at a statistic, what was the size of their control group? Were they from various regions? Where the problems major or minor issues? What is their stated margin of error (there is always one with any kind of poll).

These are all questions that you can answer for yourself on the JD Powers website.

Originally Posted by Stew

Have you ever owned a Chrysler product as I have and do to be spouting the make crap cars?

No, and it doesn't matter. If you take nothing else away from this, just remember "Personal experiences mean nothing".

[Stew]

Originally Posted by alrox

These are all questions that you can answer for yourself on the JD Powers website.

No, and it doesn't matter. If you take nothing else away from this, just remember "Personal experiences mean nothing".

How can personal experiences mean nothing???? they are where I get MY opinions and experiences which shapes MY thoughts on a subject? And you started the whole poll thing so please give me a link that shows the answers to the above questions.

[2010-1SS-IBM]

Jesus, look at this thread.

THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS!

[alrox]

Originally Posted by Stew

How can personal experiences mean nothing???? they are where I get MY opinions and experiences which shapes MY thoughts on a subject? And you started the whole poll thing so please give me a link that shows the answers to the above questions.

Personal experience with a single car(the one you own) does not indicate overall quality or future quality. The poll indicates that.

I'm not going to do your legwork. You know how to use a webpage. That information isn't a secret.

You will not debunk a widely accepted and used poll by looking at the backend specifics either.

[ViperTomcat]

[ULTRAZLS1]

You both have your points.

Stew. I agree that polls are not 100% true and accurate. And that given chrysler products could far exceed what these polls/surveys indicate. How can they possibly take into account how well a vehicle is taken care of? What if someone took it out and beat the piss out of it and broke something? I know some people who never change their oil. But then we dont know if Chrysler owners have a tendency to do this more or less than with other cars. Among others things (poll size, type of problem etc.) their are far too many variables to consider these polls the "last word" when it comes to the overall reliability of a given product.

But I also know what alrox is talking about. Chrysler is consistently behind when it comes to these quality surveys. Do they mean something...yes. Do they mean everything...no.

You both have flaws in your arguments and both fail to admit them. Not dogging you guys...I am the same way sometimes. When arguing something like this a simple answer is not going to be found...you guys might as well hang it up LOL.

In my experience I have had the bets luck with GM vehicles. We have also had some very good Ford products. My dads 93 escort went 320k on the original Motor/transmission/starter...hell even the CV joints (we oiled them to keep the rubber moist every oil change). But we do our own work and the car was always properly serviced. The car might not have made 100k under the care of a jack ass.The only reason we retired the car was because the frame started to rot.

All in all I would say we had the worst luck with chrysler products. But we never bought them new...so I have no idea of how the past was on these vehicles so this is not a totally fair assumption either.

This is why I say buy what you like. I think a majority of quality issues comes down to how a person treats their vehicle. I truly believe that most of the time if you treat a vehicle right you will have minimal problems. (and you never know how your mechanic is treating it etc.). This is also why I do all of my own mechanic work.

[alrox]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

You both have flaws in your arguments and both fail to admit them.

You fail to understand my argument or you're just wrong.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

You both have your points.

Stew. I agree that polls are not 100% true and accurate. And that given chrysler products could far exceed what these polls/surveys indicate. How can they possibly take into account how well a vehicle is taken care of? What if someone took it out and beat the piss out of it and broke something? I know some people who never change their oil. But then we dont know if Chrysler owners have a tendency to do this more or less than with other cars. Among others things (poll size, type of problem etc.) their are far too many variables to consider these polls the "last word" when it comes to the overall reliability of a given product.

But I also know what alrox is talking about. Chrysler is consistently behind when it comes to these quality surveys. Do they mean something...yes. Do they mean everything...no.

You both have flaws in your arguments and both fail to admit them. Not dogging you guys...I am the same way sometimes. When arguing something like this a simple answer is not going to be found...you guys might as well hang it up LOL.

In my experience I have had the bets luck with GM vehicles. We have also had some very good Ford products. My dads 93 escort went 320k on the original Motor/transmission/starter...hell even the CV joints (we oiled them to keep the rubber moist every oil change). But we do our own work and the car was always properly serviced. The car might not have made 100k under the care of a jack ass.The only reason we retired the car was because the frame started to rot.

All in all I would say we had the worst luck with chrysler products. But we never bought them new...so I have no idea of how the past was on these vehicles so this is not a totally fair assumption either.

This is why I say buy what you like. I think a majority of quality issues comes down to how a person treats their vehicle. I truly believe that most of the time if you treat a vehicle right you will have minimal problems. (and you never know how your mechanic is treating it etc.). This is also why I do all of my own mechanic work.

You ready for a bombshell, i agree with you 100% on basically every account and with that I am done. We are all going to buy what we like regardless of somewhat else or some rag says.