'10 SS VS '10 GT500

[Houston94vert]

Originally Posted by KoTToN

actually you never mentioned wheels, badging, etc. Your only statement was in terms of horsepower.





Last he quoted the price for the HPE 550, which is a performance package, not just a supercharger. Again reading comp would help. Also there is a sales rep from HPE on this forum who has posted the prices and details earlier, where a quick search would have helped you see that.

The New Performance-Only HPE550 Package Includes:

- Black TVS2300 Magnuson Supercharger (polished optional)
- Upgraded Fuel Injectors
- HPE Air Induction System
- Stainless Steel Cat-Back Exhaust
- 160 Degree Thermostat
- HPE Engine Management
- Professional Installation
- Chassis Dyno & Road Testing
- HPE Floormats, Badging & Numbered Plaques
- HPE 3yr / 36,000 Mile Warranty

$14,995 Installed
$10,995 Parts Only

I think we are talking about two different things. Ya'll are talking about a parts package...a supercharger and exhaust, and some floor mats and badging..not the entire completed car that I'm talking about in the auction. Which is wheels, suspension, all installed ready to go. Kind of like a GT500, you purchase and it's ready to go. GT500 has different wheels and suspensions than the standard mustang as well. Thought we are trying to compare apples to apples. Not half modded camaro to a fully loaded gt500.

I apologize, I didn't realized ya'll were only talking about the basic performance package, not the entire car to compare. Which to me, is really retarded, simply because you can get more bang for your buck at 15k by purchasing a supercharger from a manufacture(eaton, vortech, etc) and having an authorized shop install. HPE is a rip off.

The gt500 is a completely different car from the mustang gt. Not a mustang gt upgraded with parts by a tuner.

[KoTToN]

you knew exactly what we were talking about, because Moderator posted this two pages ago.

Originally Posted by Moderator4SS

Mark... do more research before making a "defense" post HPE is selling the complete car for $59,500, not the HPE550 package (which is still less than the original $70k figure quoted)

As I stated in my previous post, you can buy a 1SS Camaro that is $30,245 MSRP and add the HPE550 package for $14,950 installed. If you don'te believe me, call HPE on Monday and they will verify or send the HPE rep on the board a PM. The average buyer will not buy the complete car from HPE, instead opt for the more economical route which is stated above.

and then you proceed to call him out on the pricing of that package since then.

[ssump29]

Originally Posted by Ninjak

Zeus pretty much summed it up.

A stock GT 05~09 and even the new 2010GT to some degree will need the aftermarket to keep up with a stock 2010 Camaro.

A 2010 Camaro will need the aftermarket to keep up with a stock GT500 07~2010.

And thus it continues. We will not see a great comparison until the new 5.0's are out. Until then the above holds true.

With as much crap that I think you talk around here I couldn't agree with you anymore here. Perfect explanation. Mods please do us a favor and close this thread as it has been had too many times and just need to die off.

[Houston94vert]

Originally Posted by KoTToN

you knew exactly what we were talking about, because Moderator posted this two pages ago.



and then you proceed to call him out on the pricing of that package since then.

I said I apologize. I didn't know there was more than one type of HPE550 package. I thought the fully built car on ebay was the only way the car came. With full suspension etc. I didn't realize until later that he was simply talking about a parts package installed.

So to compare this 15k package is still not relevant. As it isn't like a gt500 where the entire car is built completely better than a mustang gt. It has the following differences.

Completely different motor with forged internals
Completely different drive train and rear end
Completely different suspension
Completely different brakes
Completely different body panels and modings
Completely different rims and tires

As I thought the Hennessey car we were talking about had all these comparable differences to an original camaro. Instead, ya'll are bitching about a performance package that includes a supercharger, exhaust, and badging for 15k. And claiming it's better than a factory gt500. When at gt500 comes with more than just performance, it has upgraded interior, suspension, brakes, drive train, etc.

My bad.

[KoTToN]

Originally Posted by Houston94vert

I said I apologize. I didn't know there was more than one type of HPE550 package. I thought the fully built car on ebay was the only way the car came. With full suspension etc. I didn't realize until later that he was simply talking about a parts package installed.

So to compare this 15k package is still not relevant. As it isn't like a gt500 where the entire car is built completely better than a mustang gt. It has the following differences.

Completely different motor with forged internals
Completely different drive train and rear end
Completely different suspension
Completely different brakes
Completely different body panels and modings
Completely different rims and tires

As I thought the Hennessey car we were talking about had all these comparable differences to an original camaro. Instead, ya'll are bitching about a performance package that includes a supercharger, exhaust, and badging for 15k. And claiming it's better than a factory gt500. When at gt500 comes with more than just performance, it has upgraded interior, suspension, brakes, drive train, etc.

My bad.

Ok lets look back at how we ended here. This was the original post mentioning the HPE and the gt500

Originally Posted by mrcowboy

One engine has a SC the other does not...lets compare a 2010 Camaro Hennessey 570 against a GT500 2010.....that would be fair, price wise and engine wise.

and then you said...

Originally Posted by Houston94vert

again.. .way off topic. Your comparing a tuner car with a factory car..and price is "NOT FAIR" as the hennessey is tapping at 70g's.

wow. Some people shouldn't make comments, makes the camaro fan base look uneducated.

so someone calls you out on that price and proves it is not so. You then start calling them out on their pricing which proves to be right after you made this comment.

Originally Posted by Houston94vert

So your talking about adding just a supercharger?? Why not say the same thing about adding a vortech etc.

I'm talking about a complete car. Wheels, supercharge, badging etc is for 63k.. not just a single mod.

Check your numbers.

so after telling people they "look uneducated", and to "check their numbers", you finally admit that your pricing for the package is off. Does this mean you should check your numbers before posting because you now look uneducated?:(

So now were back at the original hpe vs gt500 after proving the correct pricing. Now you start comparing a gt500 vs a regular gt, and a hpe camaro vs a regular ss? Comparing a hpe to an ss is comparing a tuner car vs a factory car correct? Werent you the one calling it unfair to compare the hpe to the gt500? Not to mention how much you have flip flopped around on this discussion in regards to origins, pricing, and which cars we are comparing that I think you have confused yourself as to what topic your actually trying top make a point to. Your name wouldnt happent o be John Kerry would it?

[Houston94vert]

Originally Posted by KoTToN

Ok lets look back at how we ended here. This was the original post mentioning the HPE and the gt500



and then you said...


so someone calls you out on that price and proves it is not so. You then start calling them out on their pricing which proves to be right after you made this comment.



so after telling people they "look uneducated", and to "check their numbers", you finally admit that your pricing for the package is off. Does this mean you should check your numbers before posting because you now look uneducated?:(

So now were back at the original hpe vs gt500 after proving the correct pricing. Now you start comparing a gt500 vs a regular gt, and a hpe camaro vs a regular ss? Comparing a hpe to an ss is comparing a tuner car vs a factory car correct? Werent you the one calling it unfair to compare the hpe to the gt500? Not to mention how much you have flip flopped around on this discussion in regards to origins, pricing, and which cars we are comparing that I think you have confused yourself as to what topic your actually trying top make a point to. Your name wouldnt happent o be John Kerry would it?

I think you need to back the train up.

The price of the HPE package I was talking about, is the one that is comparable to the GT500. Which I thought that's what ya'll were talking about. As the one I mentioned has many upgrades to the camaro and price at 63k. Y'all are talking about a performance package of a supercharger, exhaust and badges. So yes...completely different in pricing and performance. The reason I thought ya'll were talking about the 63k HPE camaro is because it's the only one I would actually think about comparing. As it has many upgrades that kind of make different from your regular camaro. Y'all seem to think this simple supercharger/exhaust, badging of a camaro puts it in the same status of a Gt500. This is why I brought the gt mustang into the discussion. To explain how much different a GT500 is from the other mustang offered in the line up. How it's not a mustang gt upgraded, as it's a completely different car offered by ford.

I believe I apologized for the confusion on the HPE packages and pricing.

This is like saying a Race Craft Mustang GT is comparable to a Camaro SS because they have the same hp and price. To me, it's not because the mustang has been upgraded by a tuner and is not factory built. http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...ice=&cardist=0

[DeathChill]

I definitely understand where you're coming from on this Houston, but I think it's really the only way you can compare a GT500 to a SS. There's no entry from GM in the GT500's category (well, the CTS-V, but that's not really an answer to the GT500).

[d69chris]

Finally Got mine! Just needed to say that.

2010 2SS msrp is $36730 and nobody is dealing off that , some going up from there. $750 dest/ship, auto trans $1185, stripes $470, shinny 20" wheels $470, inferno paint and interior accents $750. An so on and so on. People paying over $42K are including all options and sales tax. If you get stock 2SS and pay fees you could be out the door around $40k.
If you hurry, you will still be able to write your sales tax off on your income taxes for 09. Add to that the $4500 for the junker that you have had registered for 18 months and Your Camaro is almost FREE...............not really!

[600hp-lpe]

I can't wait to see the look in a GT500 driver's face in my rear view mirror when I beat him by that margin in my LPE prepped Camaro! that's more of a fair race SC to SC!

[MuscleCarz]

Originally Posted by 570hp-lpe

I can't wait to see the look in a GT500 driver's face in my rear view mirror when I beat him by that margin in my LPE prepped Camaro! that's more of a fair race SC to SC!

Sounds like a drivers race.

[FI4T0MCAT]

Why must people continue to compair these cars. they are not in the same class (as far as price goes). The better comparison is a gt500 and a vette, and we ALL know who wins that battle. If i wanted to spend 50K plus on a car and then bash everyone that had a 30k car by telling them i could kick your ass, I would get a vette and then everyone goes oh no shit its a vette, so why is it different to ford guys when we say that about your beloved gt500.

[mrcowboy]

Since it was me(highly educated btw) who suggested a more "fair" comparo due to two certain aspects...price and blower.

Ligenfelter + 31k camaro...42k
Hennessey + 31k camaro...46k
GT500 2010....................46k

All 3 are Supercharged, all 3 make mid 500's in HP. All 3 come with a warranty, and all 3 contain third party parts...lets go!

[DropTheGloves]

For one of the HPE packages that will give you 562ish hp, and runs 11.7's...thats really slow for that much hp. I know guys that were running 11.1's with cobras on stock tires that happened to have 470ish-500ish hp. Then once with some sticky tires and a little weight reduction the car was running 10.2-10.3's. I am thinking this Camaro has a crappy gear seat up, and is a fat pig if it's running that slow with that much hp.

[pharmd]

Originally Posted by DropTheGloves

For one of the HPE packages that will give you 562ish hp, and runs 11.7's...thats really slow for that much hp. I know guys that were running 11.1's with cobras on stock tires that happened to have 470ish-500ish hp. Then once with some sticky tires and a little weight reduction the car was running 10.2-10.3's. I am thinking this Camaro has a crappy gear seat up, and is a fat pig if it's running that slow with that much hp.

It is what it is Adam. Over time maybe someone will figure a way to make the car more efficient, but that is why BMW's M5 comes with over 500 hp stock...heavy cars need power to move and this car is heavy. Better ET's will come from lowered 60' times, but then your stressing the drivetrain...ask those Cobra guys how many tranny's and rearends they broke trying to go that fast. Most gave up and put SRA back in them, hence the new GT500 comes SRA. GM departed from its 1/4 mile roots with this car, in an attempt to create a car that someone who was shopping for a 335i coupe or M3, or G35, or 370Z etc would want to buy. Yes its slow(er) than a 4th gen with the same power, but its also more refined, quiet, better built (less rattles), and looks killer. Things, before that were found no where near a "camaro". So although, there are short comings with this car, as an owner, I'm focused on what I have to work with and creating the best rendition of that I can.

I traded my 335i in for this camaro...the 335i handled better, and since it was a sedan, had more room. I really like the car, it would have been perfect with an LS3 in it. But I had it to the dealer like every month, and when we took a trip we were never really certain whether we'd make it back or have to come home on a rollback, plus warranty was about to be up and parts are $$ and has to be worked on by a BMW authorized service shop, so we traded. They certainly can be made pretty quick no doubt.

To the guy about the GT500, the reason you don't have to put wheels, tires, body moldings, and whatever else he said the "tuner" car package didn't include, but ford includes in the GT500 vs the regular mustang...Those parts are already top shelf parts...what would they upgrade to? The main difference between the GT500 and SS is engine (or lack of a blower to be specific). There are a few ancillary things that could be upgraded on the SS like clutch, bigger sway bars etc, but basically, if you wanted a "decent" comparison the main difference is the engine. Upgrade to a forged motor with a blower and these cars would be virtually identical performance competitors. Wheels? SS already has 20's...brakes SS already has brembo's...GM was determined to use IRS anyway, so no rearend upgrade needed, good to 600rwhp per GM, body...already draws attention where ever you go, why would you mess with perfection? etc etc.

Understand there is no winning an argument like this...the one with the most dollars wins.

I would totally agree that GM will have to really get its game together next year with the 400hp pony, because unless the pony is obese like the camaro, the SS will certainly have its hands full...Glad mines not stock.