Motor Trend Head to Head: 2015 Camaro 1LE vs. new 2015 Mustang 5.0 GT PP

[krisprz2010camaross]

Camaro all the way!!

-"Ride or Die."

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Todd in Vancouver

Do you really think so?

When I see the video that Mustang is really unsettled and all over the track, just look at the first 12 seconds as it spins out. Now that's with Randy P. who is a lot more driver than any of us. I can tell you from racing my ZL that the Camaro tracks well and I could concentrate on hitting my apex, braking etc. it is just an easy car to drive smooth in. My couch when I was at my HPDE day got out of a GT3R and even he was amazed how great the Camaro handles and how smooth it is around the track. In the Mustang the flaws would be exaggerated even more with a driver like me so I have to disagree with your statement because an average driver in both cars would have the Camaro walk away from the Mustang and after a couple laps the race would be all over. IMHO.

Todd I believe that shot you were talking about with the mustang getting sideways was done for the video to give it a "cool" shot. Bc I don't recall seeing the car get sideways in the drivers view.

[Burt]

if you look at Pobst's steering inputs, he was definitely fighting the Mustang more on corner exit. I sat/rode in a '15 Mustang yesterday (base model V6 manual) and it definitely has it's merits as a fun DD. It's not a bad car, ours is just better

[Firefighter]

It's obvious that the 5th Gen Camaro is a superior car to the early version of this Mustang.

I will say this, the 5th Gen wasn't exactly well sorted in 2010 either.

I expect that the FoMoCo guys will step up their game next year. If they don't they are morons.

The big question is how will our 6th Gen hit the ground? Running? I imagine it will be just a build off of the current vehicle and the ATS which is pretty well sorted out. So I'm not worried.

If I was Ford guy I would be livid though.

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[Firefighter]

All that being said my 2013 1LE isn't going anywhere...

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[102SS]

Originally Posted by Firefighter

It's obvious that the 5th Gen Camaro is a superior car to the early version of this Mustang.

I will say this, the 5th Gen wasn't exactly well sorted in 2010 either.

I expect that the FoMoCo guys will step up their game next year. If they don't they are morons.

The big question is how will our 6th Gen hit the ground? Running? I imagine it will be just a build off of the current vehicle and the ATS which is pretty well sorted out. So I'm not worried.

If I was Ford guy I would be livid though.

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My 2010 SS handles just fine for a 3850lb sled

[Firefighter]

Originally Posted by 102SS

My 2010 SS handles just fine for a 3850lb sled

Absolutely, but there has been MUCH improvement from the initial suspension. Hell the number of revisions alone. Your car came with FE2 (same thing on my wife's G8 GT, not bad at all) but then there is FE3,FE4 for the standard SS and then FE5 for the ZL1 and FE6 for the 1LE. IDK but what FE7 for the Z/28.

Just saying that's alot of development.

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[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Firefighter

I expect that the FoMoCo guys will step up their game next year. If they don't they are morons.

Close to being morons for not being on their game any better this year. Even a caveman could have followed the obvious things that contribute to the 1LE's performance.

I wonder if Pill realizes that a 1LE won F Street at the latest running of SCCA's Solo Nationals . . . or if the right people within Ford do.

If I was Ford guy I would be livid though.

I'm not by any stretch of the imagination a "bleeds Ford blue" kind of guy, but "betrayed" certainly comes to mind just as a car enthusiast.


Norm

[102SS]

Originally Posted by Firefighter

Absolutely, but there has been MUCH improvement from the initial suspension. Hell the number of revisions alone. Your car came with FE2 (same thing on my wife's G8 GT, not bad at all) but then there is FE3,FE4 for the standard SS and then FE5 for the ZL1 and FE6 for the 1LE. IDK but what FE7 for the Z/28.

Just saying that's alot of development.

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I have been thinking of getting the 1LE suspension next spring,you can get the pkg for about $1500.00 in Canada.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Close to being morons for not being on their game any better this year. Even a caveman could have followed the obvious things that contribute to the 1LE's performance.

I wonder if Pill realizes that a 1LE won F Street at the latest running of SCCA's Solo Nationals . . . or if the right people within Ford do.



I'm not by any stretch of the imagination a "bleeds Ford blue" kind of guy, but "betrayed" certainly comes to mind just as a car enthusiast.


Norm

Like I said before Ford was tired of losing the sales battle to the Camaro for the last 5 years so they designed a car to please the masses first and later will concentrate on pleasing the performance minded...

[Ragnar]

With this day and age, cars are built with computers. They should know how to make a car handle. So you build it and then test it. When you look at the competition of the big 3 and others, could you afford not to bring your 'A' game with all the hype of a new car platform? You have people ordering cars with certain expectations for the PP option and now they see it getting beat by an outgoing 1LE. So, you buy a new car and now feel the need to buy bigger/better rims, tires, springs, etc! How disappointed would we be if the Gen 6 came out with a 1LE and was inferior Gen 5?

The 1LE sure is getting some exposure and I would rather GM take additional time and make it right, before the package is available. The 1LE option was the best $3500 that I ever spent.

[seanr56]

Here is the data from Car and Driver on the Cadillac ATS coupe V6. The ATS is based on the Alpha platform which is the same platform the 6th gen Camaro will be based on.


ENGINE TYPE: DOHC 24-valve V-6 aluminum block and heads, direct fuel injection

Displacement: 217 cu in, 3564 cc
Power: 321 hp @ 6800 rpm
Torque: 275 lb-ft @ 4800 rpm

TRANSMISSION: 6-speed automatic with manual shifting mode

DIMENSIONS:
Wheelbase: 109.3 in
Length: 183.6 in
Width: 72.5 in Height: 54.8 in
Curb weight: 3565 lb

C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 5.4 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 13.3 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 25.1 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 5.7 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 3.1 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 3.8 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.0 sec @ 102 mph
Top speed (drag limited): 146 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 163 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.91 g
FUEL ECONOMY:
EPA city/highway: 18/28 mpg
C/D observed: 26 mpg

What is going to happen when the Camaro moves to the smaller Alpha platform? With a lighter curb weight, presumably the same 450hp direct injected V8 as the Corvette, and obviously a more performance oriented suspension than the ATS, the 6th gen will be much faster than the 5th gen and get better fuel economy. The Mustang wouldn't stand a chance. Don't get me wrong, I love Ford. I had two Ford Fusion vehicles in a row as my daily driver and they were great. However, the Mustang V8 needs to be stepped up if it is going to compete with the 6th gen Camaro. I read that the Coyote is designed for direct injection. That plus a better suspension should help but I doubt it will be enough.

[Firefighter]

Originally Posted by 102SS

I have been thinking of getting the 1LE suspension next spring,you can get the pkg for about $1500.00 in Canada.

I have a Permagrin kit to throw on my 1LE, I'm going to add some drop springs also.

When I learn how to max that out I'll be looking at either a full coil over set up or the Z/28 package.

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[Spoolin]

I just want to say independent of all the testing that's been done, and coming from a 1LE owner so you know I'm super stoked about the results, that it's nice to have some of the Ford guys on here contributing meaningful and well thought out view points and points of contention. There are definitely forum's out there that can just boil your blood when you read some of the comments delivered. I also don't think the Ford GTPP is a poor performer at all, it is impressive in the grand scheme of things but when put against it's primary rival and fall short like it did, I would feel just as "betrayed" had GM done this to us.

Yes the 1LE is a superior TRACK car than the GTPP, a more visceral driving experience and fun to drive hard on a daily basis, but the new Mustang is a better overall package than the Camaro.

For me, personally, when I buy a pony car/sports car I want a stiff ride like my 1LE and have the visibility quirks that come with this gen Camaro. That's why I bought it, for the fun, the excitement, the sacrifices to me are a HUGE part of the fun of it. Every time I get in and out of my Camaro and basically have to squat myself in and out of it I laugh. It's why I bought the car, without a doubt. (If you've ever gotten in a Maclaren F1 you'd understand half the fun of that car was getting in and out of it)
If I had wanted a nice cushy ride with soft leather seats and nut massagers I would of opted for a Cadillac or Lexus or Infinity, etc... But I wanted what the Camaro had to offer and I applaud GM for having built something as Track focus'ed as they did which in turn compromises some of the on street comforts (in a better way for me, negative for others).

I would not change a thing on my Camaro (other than more durable front brakes) but the Mustang is a better overall car. It's easier to live with as a DD, better visibility/sight lines, better interior, etc... I'll also point out that the Mustang platform that Ford now has with the revised chassis and IRS means the future versions will be absolutely exceptional.

So hats off to GM for building something the customer (such as myself ) wants, and hats off to Ford for building a sales monster, because it appeased to the general Public with this car, and I think it's sales numbers will show that.