A MUST READ for Oil Temps for Tracking

[Camaro Dude]

Originally Posted by White_SS/RS

Not sure how the Camaro6 is with its temps but they didn't seem to address what most see as a oil temp problem in the introduction of the C7 either. I don't think GM sees a problem with Camaro's oil temps. An oil temp problem is too easy for the OEM to come up with a solution, they added a trans cooler on the 1LE, why not throw on a oil cooler as well? It isn't a cost issue. The price of an oil cooler is irrelevant in the big picture, especially if it's critical. I'm sure GM is on the cutting edge of oil technology and even I've seen many reports that 300 is not an excessively hot running temp for quality oils nowadays. Many oils claim they are capable at temps into the 400 range. My own oil reports show no indication of thermal related issues when it's spent significant time at 270-300. It may be time to rethink this as a norm and not as an issue.

I've been on that same page with you for quite a while..especially with Group V oils...

BUT, unless this is a figment of my imagination, were there ever any documented cases of C7 vettes and/or ZL1's (I forget which of the two), that went into limp mode because of some sort of purported overheating issues?

[xc_SS/RS]

Originally Posted by MTCobra

I took a bit of a lead from the Z06 guys and put in a cooling duct aimed at the factory oil cooler. Running it this weekend but it's supposed to be cool so it won't be much of a test.








2014 ZL1

Be sure to post the results for this because that might be a good alternative for those who don't want to add an external cooler

Has anyone added a remote mount for the oil filter with a external cooler? Figure that could help with cooling a bit if it's in a spot that gets some air flow.

[White_SS/RS]

Originally Posted by Camaro Dude

I've been on that same page with you for quite a while..especially with Group V oils...

BUT, unless this is a figment of my imagination, were there ever any documented cases of C7 vettes and/or ZL1's (I forget which of the two), that went into limp mode because of some sort of purported overheating issues?

I think there were cases of limp mode in both ZL1 and ZO6 both supercharged which suggests a whole different case from NA engines. Water temp also plays a role in when the car goes into limp mode. I'm sure there are cases of LS3 issues as well but to me it seems those are exceptions and not norms. I'm not here to stop anyone from putting in additional coolers and whatnot, but just to throw out some perspective.

[MTCobra]

I think the ZL1 limp mode issues were related to modified (horsepower) cars.


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[tadams72]

Just because you don't go into limp mode doesn't mean you are ok. As temps go up so does the likelihood of engine damaging knock. Computer will start to pull timing thus reducing power. Tell me why you would drive a car for performance only to have that performance reduced over oil and coolant temps.

Also keep in mind oil is also a major contributor to engine cooling. Just because the oil may not be breaking down doesn't mean your engine is loving it at 300+ degrees. I tracked mine for two years on Mobil 1 and stock cooling system. Highest coolant temp was 246 and calculated oil temp was somewhere in the neighborhood of 310. I did not limp but it did pull a lot of timing. Oil samples always came back looking good. Eventually I had a failure. Was it oil temp related? Maybe maybe not but when I built the new engine I moved to a larger dual core radiator, external oil cooler, and high quality fluids. I'd rather see this engine running in the 220 coolant range and 275 oil range. Will see how it does when I make to the track.


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[MTCobra]

I figured putting ambient air to the cooler area and pan area couldn't hurt. It passed the weed blower test.

Only issue with the route was I had to removed my windshield washer bottle. I tried about every other routing I could think of and this was the cleanest to clear my wheels/tires and have an inner fender that wasn't hacked up (I cut my original inner fender up before I realized the tires were going to contact the hose).


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[cdb95z28]

I installed a NACA duct in my belly pan aimed at the OE cooler. I'll get some pics tonight.

[Camaro Dude]

Originally Posted by tadams72

Just because you don't go into limp mode doesn't mean you are ok. As temps go up so does the likelihood of engine damaging knock. Computer will start to pull timing thus reducing power. Tell me why you would drive a car for performance only to have that performance reduced over oil and coolant temps.

Also keep in mind oil is also a major contributor to engine cooling. Just because the oil may not be breaking down doesn't mean your engine is loving it at 300+ degrees. I tracked mine for two years on Mobil 1 and stock cooling system. Highest coolant temp was 246 and calculated oil temp was somewhere in the neighborhood of 310. I did not limp but it did pull a lot of timing. Oil samples always came back looking good. Eventually I had a failure. Was it oil temp related? Maybe maybe not but when I built the new engine I moved to a larger dual core radiator, external oil cooler, and high quality fluids. I'd rather see this engine running in the 220 coolant range and 275 oil range. Will see how it does when I make to the track.


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Which part in the engine failed?

[tadams72]

Originally Posted by Camaro Dude

Which part in the engine failed?

Yeah I thought I should have elaborated on that after I posted it.

Broken valve spring on track led to much worse problems quickly. While I don't directly attribute that too oil temps I again make the case that oil is there as a cooling agent and the hotter it gets, the less cooling it does.

This part is directed at the general thread reader.

Not to mention the higher the oil temp the lower the viscosity becomes and thus resistance to film breakdown and metal on metal contact. You also have issues with oil longevity and deposit build-ups from overheated oil.

I for one, fully believe that GM did what every manufacturer of low to mid-range cars does. They develop a system based upon cost to profit margin considering the average user. The average user of ANY GM vehicle is not on the track. Not in a Cruze, a Camaro, or even a Vette. Most people buy these cars for something other than track duty. This is why you are seeing overheating issues on all of the boosted applications and even some of the NA. Going to the drag strip? No problem, run the stock setup. Going to run HPDE, SCCA, or other sanctioned road events then you will without a doubt need to consider running a better cooling system.

I am interested in seeing the effect of a forced air over the stock cooler. While I think it will have some effect I don't think it will be much. This is not an air cooler. It is liquid to liquid heat transfer (which is normally very effective). Problem is your cooling medium for the oil is 200+ degree engine coolant. The cooler itself doesn't have much surface area either to help dissipate the heat or give that air much area to act on. Good luck and way to think outside the box. Anxiously awaiting some hard data.

[Camaro Dude]

Tadams72, I'm tempted to agree with you in your mid paragraph about profit margin....but there is something that contradicts this, and it is GM's 24 hour endurance testing. If I recall correctly, one componentthing that did not last on the SS, were the rotors...not the case on the ZL1.

I'm trying to find the article that mentions the SS in the test, but I can't. I did find this one though, it's a bit more watered down. http://blog.caranddriver.com/how-the...formance-cars/

So I fail to understand GM's gruelling 24 hour tests vs the oil temp and coolant threads on the road course

[tadams72]

Well I'd say that puts the argument to rest but there are many stories of problems with Camaros, Corvettes, CTSVs and others suffering from overheating issues on the track. I've personally seen each of these suffer track day cooling issues. Boosted cars are more susceptible to it than NA versions but even they are not immune. As I said my own car is a proven example. It was an intake, cam, and header car that saw very high coolant temps, severe timing retard, and lost power.

To each his own though. I'd venture to say there are more people running their cars in stock configuration than those running modded cooling and oil systems. If someone is comfortable running that way then so be it. I'll tell you this though. The C7R is not running a factory cooler. The Z28 added numerous improvements for cooling and lubrication as well. Seems GM was on to something...


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[cdb95z28]

Originally Posted by cdb95z28

I installed a NACA duct in my belly pan aimed at the OE cooler. I'll get some pics tonight.

[MTCobra]

My thinking with the duct is if it makes a 10 degree difference it's worth it.

Interesting NACA duct...I wonder how much air it catches?


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[Camaro Dude]

Originally Posted by tadams72

Well I'd say that puts the argument to rest but there are many stories of problems with Camaros, Corvettes, CTSVs and others suffering from overheating issues on the track. I've personally seen each of these suffer track day cooling issues. Boosted cars are more susceptible to it than NA versions but even they are not immune. As I said my own car is a proven example. It was an intake, cam, and header car that saw very high coolant temps, severe timing retard, and lost power.

To each his own though. I'd venture to say there are more people running their cars in stock configuration than those running modded cooling and oil systems. If someone is comfortable running that way then so be it. I'll tell you this though. The C7R is not running a factory cooler. The Z28 added numerous improvements for cooling and lubrication as well. Seems GM was on to something...

"Running in stock configuration" you might also add to the list, running stock period, per those 24 hour endurance tests I hate to say.

I'm thinking of some guys who are road course junkies, but running zero mods, and zero heating issues(engine).

The ones with actual issues(failures), are modified by definition, tune, headers, and especially too big of a cam.

IMHO, the term "supporting mods" begins to make more sense now.

You mod, you sure as well must compliment it with a supporting mod, hence the word "supporting".

All ears for someone to refute my theory.

Speaking of supporting mods that look tits, Cdb95z28, that belly pan of yours is awesome!