Camaro team's response to concern about Transmission Output Shaft Failure

[mwt18]

Here's an excerpt from the 2010 Tremec Product Guide (found here):



A non-defective TR6060 can handle 700 ft-lbs.

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by mwt18

Here's an excerpt from the 2010 Tremec Product Guide (found here):

Attachment 256009

A non-defective TR6060 can handle 700 ft-lbs.

Aftermarket TR6060

Not the same as OEM.. And I don't care how many Modded cars you reference. you car was warrantied in stock trim.

Do what you want, fight what you want.

In my very humble opinion, you are wrong and warranty is void, considering all the modifications you've done.

They aren't replacing oil pumps that have a TSB out on them for cars with Cams. and your modification can be directly tied the the failure due to all the added torque introduced to the drive line.

But whatever. It's your ride, you handle it how you see fit.

[mwt18]

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT

Aftermarket TR6060
Not the same as OEM..

Please explain the differences between the T56-M and TR6060, since you are obviously very knowledgeable about the subject.

In my very humble opinion, you are wrong and warranty is void, considering all the modifications you've done.
They aren't replacing oil pumps that have a TSB out on them for cars with Cams.

Do you really believe that if a part fails because of a manufacturing defect, that GM should not fix it under warranty?

and your modification can be directly tied the the failure due to all the added torque introduced to the drive line.

Every part has a specific failure strength. In engineering terms, the part will fail when stressed beyond this ultimate strength. If the ultimate strength of a part is say 1 MPa and I try to apply 100 MPa of stress, the part never sees the excess 99 MPa. It fails at 1 MPa, when its ultimate strength is reached! These defective shafts have a strength below the stress a stock engine can produce, so the added stress is not a factor.

I'll humbly add this... I have what most would consider an extensive understanding of mechanics and materials. I work at the Center for Advanced Vehicular Systems. Above my desk hangs a poster of the Magnesium Corvette Engine Cradle analysis performed here. Do you think I would really waste my time with this if I was not confident that manufacturing defect caused this failure?

[f5journal]

MWT I have to agree with GTAHVIT.

I too am a Mechanical Engineer, but your only possible leg to stand on would have been a certified material analysis of your failed output shaft proving that it would have broken with stock or less than stock torque applied to it

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by mwt18

Please explain the differences between the T56-M and TR6060, since you are obviously very knowledgeable about the subject.

I can't.

But you may want knock off the sarcasm and keep the petty shots to yourself... I'm not the person you are mad at so don't take it out on me.

Do you really believe that if a part fails because of a manufacturing defect, that GM should not fix it under warranty?

If you car was Stock... my answer is no, they should fix it.. As you car is now I completely feel that GM should send you on your way. You can't prove at what level of stress the part failed because your engine is capable of inducing almost 40% more stress to the driveline than a stock motor can.


Every part has a specific failure strength. In engineering terms, the part will fail when stressed beyond this ultimate strength. If the ultimate strength of a part is say 1 MPa and I try to apply 100 MPa of stress, the part never sees the excess 99 MPa. It fails at 1 MPa, when its ultimate strength is reached! These defective shafts have a strength below the stress a stock engine can produce, so the added stress is not a factor.

Correct and you don't have a stock engine so you can't prove it failed at the levels of a stock motor or at the added levels of your modded one.

I'll humbly add this... I have what most would consider an extensive understanding of mechanics and materials. I work at the Center for Advanced Vehicular Systems. Above my desk hangs a poster of the Magnesium Corvette Engine Cradle analysis performed here. Do you think I would really waste my time with this if I was not confident that manufacturing defect caused this failure?

Manufacturers don't build cars with matching limitations. You don't see a 600bhp engine mated to a 600 hp capable transmission... That is why they can give warranties and most aftermarket shops don't. Yes there is a ton of room for growth in a stock car... but the contract you signed says the car is under warranty as built NOT as modded. you don't get to build your engine to the Max capacity of the transmission and expect GM to warranty the tranny...

Again. I would love to See GM fix it for you... I just don't see it happening. Nor do I think they are obligated to.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by f5journal

MWT I have to agree with GTAHVIT.

I too am a Mechanical Engineer, but your only possible leg to stand on would have been a certified material analysis of your failed output shaft proving that it would have broken with stock or less than stock torque applied to it

+1

I buy new cars and start with the modifications the day I get them. Warranty? What's that? If I put a blower on my new car and the electric mirror stops working I expect the warranty to take care of it. With my blower in place, I am pretty much on my own with the power train. That said GM warranty has been more than fair with me. The early G8s had a rear oil leak. Even with my ProCharger in place they performed the TSB work under warranty. The logic was my blower had no impact on the porous cover material.

[Ltdodge]

mwt18

i found a new avatar just for every manual under 25k vin...

[GTAHVIT]

Ok... I'll say it...


thats funny as hell.

Probably doesn't make you guys feel any better but still....

[mwt18]

Originally Posted by Ltdodge

mwt18

i found a new avatar just for every manual under 25k vin...

[JusticePete]

[PQ]

Originally Posted by Ltdodge

they dont care about the buyer after we bailed them out by buying these cars

I didn't help bail out anyone by buying this car.

I paid money, I got something in return that was well worth the money I paid.

And I didn't buy this car to somehow ease any burden on GM or anyone else. If Ford sold THIS car, I'd have bought it from them.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by PQ

I didn't help bail out anyone by buying this car.

I paid money, I got something in return that was well worth the money I paid.

And I didn't buy this car to somehow ease any burden on GM or anyone else. If Ford sold THIS car, I'd have bought it from them.

[mwt18]

Originally Posted by f5journal

MWT I have to agree with GTAHVIT.

I too am a Mechanical Engineer, but your only possible leg to stand on would have been a certified material analysis of your failed output shaft proving that it would have broken with stock or less than stock torque applied to it

I did have the shaft tested. It was out of spec. I'm going to do some monotonic and fatigue torsion tests on a couple of new shafts and determine their strength and life. That will also provide validation data for FEA if I decide to have that done as well.

[JusticePete]

Excuse me for asking. If the test shows the new bits to be stronger but the failed shaft strong enough for OE power where does that lead?