Serious ZL1 Defects

[qniknam]

GM just voluntarily repurchased my ZL1 over having to align the steering over 7 times and it kept going bad and it was eating my tires... Guess its just not in some of our plans to have Camaro's...

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by SlingShot

. . . all they did was to replace the belt driven pump with an electric pump. All the rest of the mechanics is still the same. If the electric pump was to fail, it would be no different than having a power steering belt break. Hard as hell to steer without a manual gear in it, but still very doable.

Actually, that nutshell needs to be a bit bigger than you think, depending on whether Chevy has tacked any extra features onto the basic force assist function (like Ford has with their versions of EPAS). These features (drift-pull compensation and active nibble control to mention two that I know a tiny bit about) allow the EPAS unit to introduce small amounts of steering separate from what the driver intends or has any control over.

I'm not trying to claim that Chevy actually has done those specific things or possibly others in the Camaro or even elsewhere in their model lineup, only pointing out that with EPAS the potential for doing so is there. I'd be really happy to find out for sure that Chevy DIDN'T add those things.


Norm

[NASTY99Z28]

So I'm guessing that if the local junkyard ended up with the car that it wasn't bought back from GM? Sure would like to hear from "cam" to find out what happened between him and GM. Maybe there is a reason why he stopped posting....

[JWR046]

Originally Posted by qniknam

GM just voluntarily repurchased my ZL1 over having to align the steering over 7 times and it kept going bad and it was eating my tires... Guess its just not in some of our plans to have Camaro's...

That sucks. At least they stood behind it. Look at the bright side you get two new cars in the same year and a better radio.

My 1st new car was a 92 Lumina Z34 5-speed which was a pretty nice car at that time. Well apparently they had issues with the torque from the 3.4 liter engine and at 7k miles there was a good ¼ “ play in the flywheel. There was so much play the clutch sensor could not tell the clutch was pressed and would not start. Thanks to the dealer and GM they bought the car back. There was not a fix at the time for it other than keep replacing the engine and it would happen again. I liked the car and ended up getting a 93 auto and it did not cost me a cent. Since then I have bought a lot of GM products from the same dealer and have had great service and a lot of luck with the products. I hope anyone that experiences problems like these leave with a positive experience like I did although it was pretty annoying at the time. It is not fun being in that situation but a good dealer and mechanic makes a big difference.

[tones2SS]

Someone correct me if I am wrong here. (I only did skim the whole thread.)
So, the oil leaking from the engine has nothing to do with the steering good correct? Either way, it sounds like the car wasn't a "good car" to begin with. Obviously the steering had a problem and the engine was leaking a good amount of oil, both of which should not happen on a new car.

[ford4v429]

Originally Posted by SlingShot

The amount of misinformation about EPS in this thread is unbelievable. In a nutshell all they did was to replace the belt driven pump with an electric pump. All the rest of the mechanics is still the same. If the electric pump was to fail, it would be no different than having a power steering belt break. Hard as hell to steer without a manual gear in it, but still very doable.

I dont *think* this is quite the case...from my impression, it is a 'belt driven' system, but no hydraulics...theres a brushless motor parallel to the rack, the one end of the rack has a ballscrew thread cut into it, the belt drives the hollow ballnut (x and z axes on my CNC bridgeport works same way), so the motor torque effectively moves the rack. so if the motor turns(driver input or not) the steering rack moves. ZL1 uses just one of many proven/similar systems out there, but to me, ever since seeing Fords 'park assist' feature, the whole EPS thing in my worry wart way of thinking, kinda makes me glad mines still hydraulic...

although when our ford/newholland tractor broke a line, my son almost hit a tree...'supersteer' dont work AT ALL if the oils gone

I'm sure theres a ton of failsafe/fault detection stuff in there on all this EPS stuff, CNC servos have them too to prevent a 'situation', but on CNC machine applications I'm used to seeing, if a brushless motor loses commutation channels, it will try to jump slightly just before it faults...
my apprehension of these is *what if* the motor jumps ever so slightly, then safetys trip it out, you mighta just done a lanechange and then didnt have assist while correcting with one hand loosely on the wheel...

not saying this is what happened with Cam's car, but this is exactly why i dont like the EPAS as most are done...if it was simply electrically powerred hydraulic pump I would have no apprehension at all of it...I still think this would be the best system, but with both electrc and hydraulics, it wont be as cheap as one or the other...I just think the hydraulic is a lot more failsafe. I tore apart a couple boxes/racks, the torsion bar valving is pretty robust, if the bar breaks the system still works, just no road feel, the valves are pretty clogproof esp on the old recirc ball boxes, racks, meh...


edit: found TRW's page (they make the ZL1 box, and many other makes use them too) if interested:
http://www.trw.com/sub_system/electr...wered_steering

[DrkPhx]

Originally Posted by qniknam

GM just voluntarily repurchased my ZL1 over having to align the steering over 7 times and it kept going bad and it was eating my tires... Guess its just not in some of our plans to have Camaro's...

Curious to know was if it pulling to one side or what was it doing when driving.

[BLACK10]

from the first ZL1 that we had on our lift, we added a piece of rubber hose over the battery cable on the pass side and in this area in which you have pointed out. we saw this as problems that will have eventually showed up.

[Brian 1LE SS]

Wow, this thread is crazy.

[oldfriend]

Originally Posted by qniknam

GM just voluntarily repurchased my ZL1 over having to align the steering over 7 times and it kept going bad and it was eating my tires... Guess its just not in some of our plans to have Camaro's...

That really sucks man , saw your car a few time on the highway and it was a one shiny beast .

[toesuf94]

Originally Posted by NASTY99Z28

So I'm guessing that if the local junkyard ended up with the car that it wasn't bought back from GM? Sure would like to hear from "cam" to find out what happened between him and GM. Maybe there is a reason why he stopped posting....

There is a car that looks suspiciously like the wreck of CAM's at Cleveland Pick-a-Part. Check out their facebook page or look them up online. They stated it was the first Totaled ZL1 on the planet.

[zl1bro]

Originally Posted by BLACK10

from the first ZL1 that we had on our lift, we added a piece of rubber hose over the battery cable on the pass side and in this area in which you have pointed out. we saw this as problems that will have eventually showed up.

So this area is on the pass side and you have to get the car on a lift in order to check it? So you added rubber hose in 2 spots (battery cable and steering line) in and around that sharp edged support bracket? We probably all should be checking this out carefully and do the same thing. Better safe than sorry..

[NASTY99Z28]

Originally Posted by toesuf94

There is a car that looks suspiciously like the wreck of CAM's at Cleveland Pick-a-Part. Check out their facebook page or look them up online. They stated it was the first Totaled ZL1 on the planet.

IMO he knew GM was going to buy it back because of the problems so he was having fun with it lost control and wrecked. I would beat mine to if I knew I was getting a new one but the way he tried to hide this because he didn't want to alarm anyone about a possible faulty steering problem yet he told the world about his oil leak just seemed fishy. I guess we will never truly know what happened since "cam" no longer post on here guess he's either to embarrassed or in the middle of a law suit......

[CAM ZL1]

First of all, I'm sorry to all of my fellow Camaro5 members for not being more prompt on my responses and updates. As can be expected, this process takes awhile to sort itself out, and frankly, I thought a lot of drama was being stirred up.

GM pulled the crash data, passed it onto claims, and finally GM Legal. In the end, they found insufficient evidence to definitively confirm an EPAS failure; however, they highly contributed towards my purchase of the previously ordered replacement 2013, most likely due to the extensive list of issues the 2012 had already displayed.

I'm thankful for those of you who took your ZL1's in and prevented future problems from occurring. I'm glad some individuals benefitted from my venting, and that I didn't just come across as paranoid or annoying.

Again, I apologize for not being more involved in the forum. The conclusion of 2012 was not easy. The number of personal tragedies and a hectic work schedule tends to shift your priorities.

I did get about a months use out of the 2013 before having to put it into storage for the winter and thankfully, it has lived up to the high standard I had for the 2012 that never came to fruition.

I will always be concerned with any thought of a knock, drip, and creak, and if anything ever shows its' face with the 2013, this forum will be the first place I come. Thank you all for your feedback, concern, and continued support.