New photos: Camaro Z28 Testing Against GT500

[nards444]

Originally Posted by SuperFly03

You can't cross shop a Vette and a GT500. They are two entirely different cars built for two entirely different markets. One is a pony car in a 2+2 factor that is built to be a monster at the drag strip and track performance is second. The Vette is a 2 seater designed to be a track car and take on high end imports.

I can use a GT500 as a daily driver because I can get 4 people to lunch as needed but I couldn't ever use a Vette as a DD. I'm not everyone but it's one example of why they aren't comparable.

Also, you can't compare revenue numbers that isn't how much Ford makes on these cars. Look at gross profit. I'd rather not get into the details of cost accounting but lets just say there is a few concepts that come into play: marginal cost, production capacity constraints, and others.

So yes Mustangs/GT's contribute more to Ford's top line in aggregate but I guarantee you the GT500 contributes more to gross profit per unit than the GT or V6 edition.

This entire argument applies the ZR1, GT500, Z28, GT-R, etc.

Again you have some points but how many people is going to use their 500 or camaro as a four seater? Slim to none. My question to you is why did Ford come out with the GT500 if not to compete against corvette? They had nothing to compete with from chevy at the time?

I can compare revenue numbers, thats why i didnt get into gross profit instead I stayed with overall sale. Now theres to many factors to pin point an exact profit margin but even if the 500 is double that of the camaro its profitability is jack compared to camaro. And you cant doubt that economics drives business and the 500 is not doing anything for ford right now. And per unit you would probably be right on the profitability, when you have only 5500 units per year units really dont matter.

Im not doubting you in that the 500 is fast or even cool although ive only liked one year of them, I dont think you can prove to me that the 500 is economically viable. And my point is that after the intial buy from diehards the Z will be the same way. Im throwing a huge shot into the dark but lets say ford proffits 10% of each car, which i bet give or take 5% that number is probably right, and Im talking all workers, vendors, dealers,etc are paid, they are only taking in 27 million a year on these cars, not a whole lot for a business like that

[Jordan91]

i think they covered up the front because thats what the Z28 model will look like,and from the outline it looks like the Z28 might have the transformers 2 bumblebee front

[manish]

Originally Posted by thok mcbeefstew

Let’s not forget that this is the CAMARO5 website, so most people on here that could, would pull the trigger on buying a new Z28. GM is looking to grab a lot more people than that. If it is past 50K, I’ve got a feeling that a lot of the general public that is thinking muscle car, would end up going to the corvette if they are GM fans. I don’t know who said it before on this sight, but they made a great point of saying that Ford does not have Corvette competitor, so that is why the GT500 gets up there in price more.[/SIZE][/FONT]

um ford does have a vette competitor...ford gt, the mustang gt500 is just ford expression of the ultimate pony car. The ford gt is ford's super car

[nards444]

Originally Posted by manish

um ford does have a vette competitor...ford gt, the mustang gt500 is just ford expression of the ultimate pony car. The ford gt is ford's super car

True but how many are made, ive never seen one on the road. And ultimate pony car where they make only a hanful that dont sell.

[KKreme15]

Originally Posted by manish

um ford does have a vette competitor...ford gt, the mustang gt500 is just ford expression of the ultimate pony car. The ford gt is ford's super car

Discontinued.

[jayman]

I wouldn't call a ford gt a vette competitor when it was nearly double the price of the z06.

[Supercamaro64]

anybody kno the specs on the ford gt?? im just kinda curious how it stacks up to the vette.

[fazm]

Originally Posted by nards444

True but how many are made, ive never seen one on the road. And ultimate pony car where they make only a hanful that dont sell.

i see one or 2 a week, but then again i usually see 10-15 lambos/ferraris a week. hell im probably one of the few people that have seen a mclaren f1 lm in the wild lol

[KKreme15]

My friend's dad has a Ford GT. But then again he also has an sl 65 black, '70 hemi cuda, sold his viper srt-10 though

[Camaro_Corvette]

Originally Posted by thok mcbeefstew

So, if you really want to beat the GT500 buy a vette.

If you have ever seen Cannonball Run...

Dean Martin - Remember our car.. Two seats.. (While smacking Sammy Davis Jr. in the face) Where's he going to sit? Where?

Moral of the story. Corvette is a great car. But not everybody wants one.

[SuperFly03]

Originally Posted by nards444

Again you have some points but how many people is going to use their 500 or camaro as a four seater? Slim to none. My question to you is why did Ford come out with the GT500 if not to compete against corvette? They had nothing to compete with from chevy at the time?

Using it as a four seater and having the capability are two different things. I don't use my Camaro as a 4 seater but once a week for a 2 mile trip to lunch. That's it. That's all I would expect a Camaro to be used for. A Corvette can never even take people to lunch. Camaro and Stang's aren't designed for road trips with 4 people but run around town when you are out with your friends kind of deal.

The GT500 isn't meant to compete with the Corvette. Different markets, different price points (base Vette is really bad). Just because there is a $55k Vette and a $55k Mustang doesn't mean they are meant to go head to head. You cross shop Challengers, Stangs, Camaros and if you want to stretch it Nissan Z's. These are all 2+2 sport coupes except the Z. Concurrently, you cross shop Vettes, GT-Rs and Porsches. These are all wholly 2 seater proper sports cars.

Originally Posted by nards444

I can compare revenue numbers, thats why i didnt get into gross profit instead I stayed with overall sale.

Revenue is a misleading number.

Originally Posted by nards444

Now theres too many factors to pin point an exact profit margin but even if the 500 is double that of the camaro its profitability is jack compared to camaro.

Are you trying to compare the GT500's aggregate gross profit to the aggregate gross profit of all Camaros?

I was talking per unit... if it makes money per unit and there are no production constraints then it is economically viable. Period.

Originally Posted by nards444

And you cant doubt that economics drives business and the 500 is not doing anything for ford right now.

Based on what? If they were losing money per car they wouldn't make it ergo since they are still making it 5 years later you can reasonably assume they are making money.

Originally Posted by nards444

And per unit you would probably be right on the profitability, when you have only 5500 units per year units really dont matter.

If it is being produced it matters. You can't take a lazy ass approach to one model. That is how you get into hot water like the Big 3 were before.

Originally Posted by nards444

Im not doubting you in that the 500 is fast or even cool although ive only liked one year of them, I dont think you can prove to me that the 500 is economically viable.

Define economically viable, is that simply profitable? If so, then that's an easy case to make. If it means something else the let me know what you are trying to communicate.

Originally Posted by nards444

And my point is that after the intial buy from diehards the Z will be the same way. Im throwing a huge shot into the dark but lets say ford proffits 10% of each car, which i bet give or take 5% that number is probably right, and Im talking all workers, vendors, dealers,etc are paid, they are only taking in 27 million a year on these cars, not a whole lot for a business like that

The initial 07 buy's were die hards (your words)... and 4-5 years later they are still selling. The same will be true with the Z. You can't take a snap shot of the market today and assume once the current buyers are satisfied that no one else will want it. People like me, who are just out of college, probably can't afford the Z right now but in a few years, after saving and getting a few raises, we will be able to. We want it now but we will buy it when we can afford it.

I believe you are short sighted...

Not to mention we have completely derailed this thread.

My apologies.

[SuperFly03]

Originally Posted by fazm

i see one or 2 a week, but then again i usually see 10-15 lambos/ferraris a week. hell im probably one of the few people that have seen a mclaren f1 lm in the wild lol

I've seen 1 GT in the wild but never a F1.

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by thok mcbeefstew

That car, will “smoke check” the GT500. So, if you really want to beat the GT500 buy a vette.

[manish]

Originally Posted by nards444

True but how many are made, ive never seen one on the road. And ultimate pony car where they make only a hanful that dont sell.

I have to remember that u are located in new york, im in detroit and i see them all the time not as much as a vette which is incredible common here, but enough that i dont always do a double take when one passes me up. heck if anyone here is from detroit, there are 2 parked on woodward about a half mile before comerica park. The ford gt is the vette competitor, maybe more so the zr1, but the vette is gm's top car, ford gt is ford's, and the viper is chrysler.