Would you turn your Camaro into a Hybrid?

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by soloknight6

Very awesome invention! Those students are going to be so effing wealthy. I would do that to my car, why not? 10-15 extra MPG? No negative effects on performance (except weight)? Sign me up!

What about the negative effect on cargo space? You want to put your groceries on the seat?

You do also understand that a funky motor designed to fit between the brake rotor and the wheel is a sub-optimal form factor. It would make more sense to design the electric motor with a more efficient shape and stick it inline with the drive shaft.

This system looks like it will work poorly compared to a purpose built bybrid vehicle designed as one from the inception. I'm sure it probably functions, but far from an optimal design.

[soloknight6]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

What about the negative effect on cargo space? You want to put your groceries on the seat?

Dont buy a lot of food, maybe 2 grocery bags a week. Plus the camaro has a handy dandy rear seat bench.

You do also understand that a funky motor designed to fit between the brake rotor and the wheel is a sub-optimal form factor. It would make more sense to design the electric motor with a more efficient shape and stick it inline with the drive shaft.

A motor designed to fit between the brake rotor allows universal application (stated in the vid, some vehicles with large rotors wont work.) A motor inline with the drive shaft would be ridiculously expensive to install. The purpose of the bolt on hybrid technology is to be affordable. (as stated in the vid.)

This system looks like it will work poorly compared to a purpose built bybrid vehicle designed as one from the inception. I'm sure it probably functions, but far from an optimal design.

Its bolt on hybrid tech, its supposed to be an INEXPENSIVE way to boost mpgs. (as stated in the vid.)
.

Answered.

[tramtwo]

For my LS3 Camaro an 8 miles per gallon increase (50 percent) equals a 150 miles more per tank. Or about 120 tanks before I would break even (his 3000 dollar figure). Roughly 54000 miles. I think I heard him say this was a plug in hybrid, in which case it also takes buying electricity. Pass.

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by soloknight6

Dont buy a lot of food, maybe 2 grocery bags a week. Plus the camaro has a handy dandy rear seat bench.

In other words, your fuel savings is offset by the money you have to pay the babysitter because you have to leave your kids with the sitter in order to have room to put the groceries.

Alternatively, you can make multiple 2-bag trips to the store, but I guess that doesn't save much gas.

Thirdly, your family can simply starve on 2 bags of food per week. Heck, that's probably not enough for a single person.

Originally Posted by soloknight6

A motor designed to fit between the brake rotor allows universal application (stated in the vid, some vehicles with large rotors wont work.) A motor inline with the drive shaft would be ridiculously expensive to install. The purpose of the bolt on hybrid technology is to be affordable. (as stated in the vid.)

I just got through explaining to you that this system is not very efficient because it makes efficiency compromises because it has to fit existing cars, and how you would be best served to get a purpose built hybrid vehicle and you counter by insisting the system is best because it is a (compromised) retrofit.

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by soloknight6

Very awesome invention! Those students are going to be so effing wealthy. I would do that to my car, why not? 10-15 extra MPG? No negative effects on performance (except weight)? Sign me up!

I guess you have not figured out yet that you're not getting 10-15MPG extra for nothing, You act like installing this system will get you extra miles for FREE.

Allow me to educate you:

First and foremost is the price of the system and the install. The guy made the (optimistic) estimate of $3000 for the setup. If we assume $4 per gallon gas then you could buy 750 gallons with that same money. If you already get 25MPH then you could go 18,750 miles for the same cost as this setup.

If you do get this setup installed, then you would need to SAVE 750 gallons of gas to pay for itself. Since it adds 15MPG maximum to the MPG you would be now getting 40MPG and would not see any cost savings until the car had 30,000 miles on the odometer.

Of course, the above figure is based on your assumption that electricity is free and doesn't cost anything to produce. This is of course wrong. If you watched the video, you would notice that they refer to this as a "Plug In Hybrid", which means that the charge in the battery is actually added to your skyrocketing electricity bill and does NOT get produced from the gas in the car. You pay for it as a second fuel source. Picture it like a second gas tank you need to fill with electrons you purchase at another station. Not free.

Essentially, this system is the same thing as buying an electric golf cart for $3000 and towing your Camaro for 10-15 miles for every gallon of gas you use. You still have to pay for the electricity that you put in the golf cart batteries.

Since we don't know the capacity of the batteries this system uses, we cannot make a good estimate of the cost of the electricity involved. It will likely cut the effective savings of this system in half or worse.

[INTIMIDAT3R]

To answer your question... yes I'd turn my Camaros into hybrids.

I'd install jet engines and collapsible wings so I could fly them if I wanted.

Forget the earth, get yours now!!!

[soloknight6]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

In other words, your fuel savings is offset by the money you have to pay the babysitter because you have to leave your kids with the sitter in order to have room to put the groceries.

Alternatively, you can make multiple 2-bag trips to the store, but I guess that doesn't save much gas.

Thirdly, your family can simply starve on 2 bags of food per week. Heck, that's probably not enough for a single person.

Dont have kids bud, I shop for myself. If I had kids I wouldnt own a camaro.




I just got through explaining to you that this system is not very efficient because it makes efficiency compromises because it has to fit existing cars, and how you would be best served to get a purpose built hybrid vehicle and you counter by insisting the system is best because it is a (compromised) retrofit.

I just tried to explain to you that a bolt on system would be cheaper. A system that costs 3,000. I could buy a brand new camaro, and turn it into a hybrid, for 10,000 less than a factory hybrid. Thats the point. Come on man, open use that thing in your head (your brain) and think about it. Not everyone will use it, and you can point out reasons it wouldn't work for you, but not everyone is you.

Answered

[soloknight6]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

I guess you have not figured out yet that you're not getting 10-15MPG extra for nothing, You act like installing this system will get you extra miles for FREE.

Allow me to educate you:

First and foremost is the price of the system and the install. The guy made the (optimistic) estimate of $3000 for the setup. If we assume $4 per gallon gas then you could buy 750 gallons with that same money. If you already get 25MPH then you could go 18,750 miles for the same cost as this setup.

If you do get this setup installed, then you would need to SAVE 750 gallons of gas to pay for itself. Since it adds 15MPG maximum to the MPG you would be now getting 40MPG and would not see any cost savings until the car had 30,000 miles on the odometer.

Of course, the above figure is based on your assumption that electricity is free and doesn't cost anything to produce. This is of course wrong. If you watched the video, you would notice that they refer to this as a "Plug In Hybrid", which means that the charge in the battery is actually added to your skyrocketing electricity bill and does NOT get produced from the gas in the car. You pay for it as a second fuel source. Picture it like a second gas tank you need to fill with electrons you purchase at another station. Not free.

Essentially, this system is the same thing as buying an electric golf cart for $3000 and towing your Camaro for 10-15 miles for every gallon of gas you use. You still have to pay for the electricity that you put in the golf cart batteries.

Since we don't know the capacity of the batteries this system uses, we cannot make a good estimate of the cost of the electricity involved. It will likely cut the effective savings of this system in half or worse.

Calm down dude, dont get your panties in a bunch. Of course the system wont be free, nothing is. Will it save money in the long run? sure. Will the savings be worth it? sure, in the long run. Having a hybrid doesn't make your energy bill skyrocket to insane amounts. And tow your car with an electric golf cart? I think you need the education, go back to school?
Im done trying to spell it out for you, go back and READ my posts until they make sense to you. I get the last laugh... Hahahahahahaahhahahahahahahahah.

Oh, and you quoted me twice... You dont need to do that...

[Bonanza7]

Even if I could, I would not. I love to piss off the greenies.

[liquidsmoke]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

If it isn't broke, don't fix it.

Some people are fixated on the "new" thing and forget that not everything that is new is better.

There are plenty of examples of older things being superior. Compare a "New" box of cracker jacks to one from the 1950's. The old box was bigger in size, costed much less, contained more than 4 peanuts, and had a real toy inside (not a sticker or piece of cardboard).

Many products made the "old" way, like solid wood furniture (as opposed to laminated OSB) are considered vastly superior.



Not gonna happen unless you mean they will be the standard because everything else at that time has been outlawed. Then, by default, it will be standard.

I love how people make sweeping generalizations about "benefits" and don't actually say what these benefits are supposed to be. What's the benefit of this proposed system? As far as I can tell, there are none. (And I actually thought this through and I'm not parroting facts reported on "Entertainment Tonight" and in "Parade magazine")

You really sound like a grumpy old guy. Keep your hands off my gas engines. Lol
There isn't anything new about electricity or electric cars. If everyone here was just jumping the gun cuz we are excited about something being new, we'd all be driving Prius. But we don't. We drive heavy ass camaro's.

If it ain't broke? So you honestly think gas engines are the best we can do as humans? They have been very usefull for us for a very long time, but they are not effecient or friendly on the environment. And the $4.50 at the pump is all the broken I need to see. And energy independence is enough of a benefit for me.
And just so we are clear, I'm NOT nore was i ever talking about whatever that bolt on wheel thing is in the original post. I'm talking about proper electric vehicles built to be electric vehicles. Real hybrids and other alternative methods of powering a vehicle. Electricity is vastly cheaper than gasoline.
You sound like one of those guys who don't believe global warming is real. I won't put words in your mouth though, u can speak for yourself.

While I agree with your observations of the decline of cracker jacks, was one of my favorite snacks as a kid. I shake my head every time I see a box.
And solid wood is vastly superior to cheap Ikea book cases. But in both of those admittedly weak examples their are alternatives at every price point and quality mark available for people to choose what's good for them. I make my own cracker jacks at home now and i dont need the toy.
Arguing over if something is new or old and if it's better or not because it's new or old is a fools errand. I could build a list as long as my arm for both cases so it's really a silly argument. One that I'll end right now.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by jeremy3721

Maybe I'm in a bad mood or something so forgive me. but are people so stupid as to not understand the concept of saving a few bucks when you are driving in traffic. Just because someone thinks it's a good idea to save gas while sitting at a 20 red lights on the way to work doesn't mean they can't still blow you off the road later when the time is right.

There's a little more to this than considering only the day to day operating expense. Which itself still needs to consider the addtional household utility expenses.

It might take a while to amortize that $3000 buy-in (plus shop labor if it's beyond your own DIY capabities) even if you're willing to eat the difference in utility bills.

The car still has to work the way you otherwise expect it to. I guarantee this to be a tougher thing to get past if you don't currently own an automatic transmission car.


I do have reservations concerning the life span of the permanent magnets. Brakes create heat, sometimes lots of it. Enough heat will reduce and can completely destroy magnetic strength. Unless durability testing and subsequent redesign can prove otherwise, I'd assume that the need to maintain the power level of the electric motor (without continually or at least occasionally replacing the magnets) would indirectly force you to drive in more mild-mannered fashion than some here seem to think. People living in hilly regions probably need not apply.


I'm not particularly against this thing or any improved version that might come out of it down the road. Just not so starry-eyed that all I can see are the claimed benefits.


Norm

[Rhyder]

as far as cost versus recompense, its a bolt on, you can take it off the car when it goes away and bolt it on to the new camaro.....try doing that with a regular hybrid.......so 54k miles is not that much.

as to room? really? you have kids and the only vehicle you have is the camaro? you obviously made the decision of a camaro over room already, so the limited space argument is not valid.....most everyone has an alternate vehicle if they have kids....take that one for groceries.

[Kahdir]

Cool idea, but I would never retro fit it to my Camaro.
I would rather buy a used Civic that's getting 30 MPG and add it to that if I every started to worry about fuel costs and still drive the Camaro on weekends.

[rockrau]

My SS is RED not green!