Whipple or bell supercharger?

[2010SSRSM6]

Originally Posted by nfamous209

ok, umm relocated, modified, same difference. technically shouldnt be able to pass CARB, since its not in factory location.

Airbox doesn't have to be in the same location to pass inspection. (Cat's have to be in the factory location)

There is a carbon filter in the airbox that "must" be retained, but companies are getting CARB #'s by attaching new products to a similar product that already have the exemption or #.

[nfamous209]

well to me factory means untouched. but then again thats just me. but if they allow it then thats shocking. they should start allowing long tubes too. hell theres still cats. theyre just "relocated." same thing can be said about that. make aftermarket replacement cats that can get CARB, then use that to make a nice long tube kit and say "these are carb approved cats, just RELOCATED" your using the system against themselves. lol.

honestly i dont care, like ive said before. SMOG should be. "if it blows clean, you pass" who cares about what part you have. well as long as u have cats of course. a car w/o cats that has LT's and a very loud exhaust system, sounds like crap. got to atleast keep cats. and i dont mean furry ones w/ 4 legs that go meow. lol

[radz28]

Originally Posted by nfamous209

that's all in the driver. have one driver in 1 car and John Force in the Other and c who will win?

should have the same unbiased driver drive the crap out of both cars down the 1320 and c the outcome.

so KB modifies the stock airbox? I could swear that in order to achieve a CARB certification, the unit must retain Stock Air Intake System. like the Whipple and Maggies do.

and plus that doesnt say much cuz all someone needs to do is make a cold air kit that goes into the bumper.

I keep hearing the carbon filter just needs to be retained and functioning. I still haven't seen what it looks like or it's orientation in the OEM air box, but it seems it shouldn't be a problem with what KB's doing. We'll find out after they do or don't get a CARB number.

Originally Posted by nfamous209

ok, umm relocated, modified, same difference. technically shouldnt be able to pass CARB, since its not in factory location.

Originally Posted by 2010SSRSM6

Airbox doesn't have to be in the same location to pass inspection. (Cat's have to be in the factory location)

There is a carbon filter in the airbox that "must" be retained, but companies are getting CARB #'s by attaching new products to a similar product that already have the exemption or #.

Is this fact or speculation? I'm sure we'll find out soon if nothing else. It makes sense since it should be a one-way system, no? I suppose it's just suppose to trap hydrocarbons from leaking from the engine out of the intake? Please edumacate me

Originally Posted by nfamous209

well to me factory means untouched. but then again thats just me. but if they allow it then thats shocking. they should start allowing long tubes too. hell theres still cats. theyre just "relocated." same thing can be said about that. make aftermarket replacement cats that can get CARB, then use that to make a nice long tube kit and say "these are carb approved cats, just RELOCATED" your using the system against themselves. lol.

honestly i dont care, like ive said before. SMOG should be. "if it blows clean, you pass" who cares about what part you have. well as long as u have cats of course. a car w/o cats that has LT's and a very loud exhaust system, sounds like crap. got to atleast keep cats. and i dont mean furry ones w/ 4 legs that go meow. lol

You'll never see LTs legal because moving the cats' effect their lightoff. They're so close to the exhaust ports in order to reach their operating temperature as soon as possible and in order to do that, exhaust heat needs to be retained enough to remain hot enough for the cats' to do their thing. LTs and moving cats' further from the ports would enable the tubes to bleed-off the heat too much. I measured exhaust temperature at the ports and at the cats' (with LTs and high-flow ceramic cats') and the difference was several hundred degrees. I don't recall the exact numbers, but there was a huge difference.

LTs/cat' placement is totally different than relocating an air box. The air box is passive, unlike catalytic converters.

[nfamous209]

Originally Posted by radz28

You'll never see LTs legal because moving the cats' effect their lightoff. They're so close to the exhaust ports in order to reach their operating temperature as soon as possible and in order to do that, exhaust heat needs to be retained enough to remain hot enough for the cats' to do their thing. LTs and moving cats' further from the ports would enable the tubes to bleed-off the heat too much. I measured exhaust temperature at the ports and at the cats' (with LTs and high-flow ceramic cats') and the difference was several hundred degrees. I don't recall the exact numbers, but there was a huge difference.

LTs/cat' placement is totally different than relocating an air box. The air box is passive, unlike catalytic converters.

one can always dream

[radz28]

[Caliman93230]

according to Whipple, is coming soon, since 2009. so there is really no comparing right now, really this is a joke.

[2010SSRSM6]

I was working with an aftermarket company during the R&D phase for their exhaust and CAI systems last year when the Camaro first came out. They were going to try to get their CAI added to an exsisting C.A.R.B.# but the weren't sure if they could do so because of the carbon filter that is affixed to the top of the OEM box. They still haven't released either of their systems (as far as I know).

The carbon filter is the important part of the OEM box. It is supposed to keep fuel from exiting the TB and hitting the ground or going into the air.

[Granatelli]

Originally Posted by 2010SSRSM6

I was working with an aftermarket company during the R&D phase for their exhaust and CAI systems last year when the Camaro first came out. They were going to try to get their CAI added to an exsisting C.A.R.B.# but the weren't sure if they could do so because of the carbon filter that is affixed to the top of the OEM box. They still haven't released either of their systems (as far as I know).

The carbon filter is the important part of the OEM box. It is supposed to keep fuel from exiting the TB and hitting the ground or going into the air.

The carbon trap filter is the reason why 99% of the CAI system will never truely be 50 state legal

[MARZ]

Originally Posted by Caliman93230

according to Whipple, is coming soon, since 2009. so there is really no comparing right now, really this is a joke.

I see where you're coming from, but I understand Whipple's stance, too. Whipple's front-entry setup and accompanying hardware (jackshaft, etc) is, presumably, all-new to them. Please keep in mind that Whipple isn't slapping one of their GT500 kits onto the Camaro as is the case with some other companies (not that there's anything wrong with that). They've designed an all-new system that required an extensive amount of design engineering, validation, testing, etc. You can rest assured that they won't release the kit until they're 100% satisfied with it and the calibration.

Just a little while longer. It's not as if Whipple is some new, upstart company; their name is known throughout the industry and their compressors make gobs of proven power and torque -- there's no denying that. I have no doubt in my mind that their Camaro kit will live up to the Whipple name.

[Granatelli]

Originally Posted by MARZ

Just a little while longer. It's not as if Whipple is some new, upstart company; their name is known throughout the industry and their compressors make gobs of proven power and torque -- there's no denying that. I have no doubt in my mind that their Camaro kit will live up to the Whipple name.

I would agree with that statement

[Caliman93230]

Originally Posted by MARZ

I see where you're coming from, but I understand Whipple's stance, too. Whipple's front-entry setup and accompanying hardware (jackshaft, etc) is, presumably, all-new to them. Please keep in mind that Whipple isn't slapping one of their GT500 kits onto the Camaro as is the case with some other companies (not that there's anything wrong with that). They've designed an all-new system that required an extensive amount of design engineering, validation, testing, etc. You can rest assured that they won't release the kit until they're 100% satisfied with it and the calibration.

Just a little while longer. It's not as if Whipple is some new, upstart company; their name is known throughout the industry and their compressors make gobs of proven power and torque -- there's no denying that. I have no doubt in my mind that their Camaro kit will live up to the Whipple name.

Well I'm not going to argue with your statement, however one can only wonder as to why so long of a wait, whipple seams to be pushing the date of release back every month since early 2010, I too uderstand that this kit is a new redesign and they are working hard to make it the best s/c in the market. perhaps I'm being impatient but if the kit is just not going to be available I'm just going to get another unit,

[Mike@KB]

Originally Posted by 570hp-lpe

I have had a TVS for almost a year.. if I were to buy a S/C right now, it would be the KB.

We appreciate that!

[MARZ]

Originally Posted by Caliman93230

Well I'm not going to argue with your statement, however one can only wonder as to why so long of a wait, whipple seams to be pushing the date of release back every month since early 2010, I too uderstand that this kit is a new redesign and they are working hard to make it the best s/c in the market. perhaps I'm being impatient but if the kit is just not going to be available I'm just going to get another unit,

I'm not going to argue with your statement ( ) as I agree with you whole-heatedly. I think Whipple felt immense pressure as the TVS guys have been producing incredible numbers and KB has a sizable share in the 5th Gen Camaro world now. In hindsight, Whipple should have waited until their kits were actually ready before quoting release dates. Once their kits are released, though, I'm sure everyone will forget about how long it took for them to come to market.

[old motorhead]

[QUOTE=MARZ;2130980]
I think Whipple felt immense pressure as the TVS guys have been producing incredible numbers and KB has a sizable share in the 5th Gen Camaro world now.

Sizable market share? What do you estimate KB's share to be? They seem to be few and far between to me. Maybe I've missed a few?