What my dealer said about tuning my car

[WICKEDSS]

Originally Posted by Dave Coyle

If I were you I would look for a crashed camaro and by the computor out of it, install it in yours and keep the one in your car with the stock tune for any warranty work. Use the one from the crashed car for a custom tune. My dealer told me that if you have a major failure with the motor, trans or rear axle, GM will ask them to check your computor and they can see if it has been flashed and if it was, they can tell how many times and your warranty is gone.

True that would be your best bet

[mjorgensen]

The dealer or the Rep that checks the claim can deny ANYTHING they want and you end up putting up the fight. It cost money and they hope you will fold first. It happens all the time at dealers around ours. Most warranty's say if ANY aftermarket part is used the power train can be voided (even air filters!) Extended warranty's are the WORST for this language and they will get out of anything they can. Some adjusters are actually only paid for the inspection if they find reason to deny coverage!

Originally Posted by Apex Paul

I would have to disagree with you here. The Magnuson-Moss act favors the consumer, placing the burden of proof on the person/company that writes the warranty.

The SEMA Action Network has a lot of useful information about warranty issues.

I am not anti-dealer. I understand why ($$$) some dealers try to void warranties, but a reputable dealer should cover the warranty as it was written, and within the laws that relate to warranties. If the dealer denies your warranty work I would suggest that you get them to do so in writing (as Dragoneye stated above) so that you can then challenge their decision after doing a little homework and determining for yourself if the aftermarket product caused the damage/problem.

Originally Posted by Flynnaz

From the GMPP website on what is not covered read into it what you will, I read it as the Dealer would need to prove the problem came from the tune.;

This Agreement is not responsible for a FAILURE or CLAIM:
a) Caused by misuse, abuse, negligence, alterations, or modifications made to YOUR VEHICLE;
b) Caused by lack of maintenance required by the Maintenance Schedule for YOUR VEHICLE, as detailed in YOUR Owners Manual;
c) Caused by collision, fire, theft, freezing, vandalism, riot, explosion, lightning, earthquake, windstorm, hail, water, or animal;
d) Caused by racing or other competition;
e) Caused by a condition that existed prior to purchase of this Agreement, or if the odometer has stopped or been changed;
f) Caused by pulling a trailer or another vehicle, unless YOUR VEHICLE is equipped for this as recommended by the VEHICLE manufacturer;
G MGX 0 GS MI (01-09)
g) Subject to any warranty, VEHICLE manufacturer recall or guarantee issued by the VEHICLE manufacturer or a repairer;
h) Occurring outside the fifty (50) United States of America, the District of Columbia, and Canada;
i) Relating to any part which is not original VEHICLE manufacturer equipment or a like replacement part, whether or not it meets VEHICLE manufacturer specifications. Examples may include, but are not limited to, garage door openers, cellular telephones, theft deterrent systems, and air conditioning components;
j) Relating to any communication, navigational, or entertainment devices that become unusable or unable to function as intended due to changes in content, technology, or wireless service;
k) Caused by contaminated fuel systems or other contaminated fluids.
Finally, no benefits are available hereunder:
l) If a material misrepresentation was made on the Contract Registration, or if YOU are no longer using YOUR VEHICLE in accordance with the eligibility requirements stated on the Contract Registration;
m) For economic loss, including loss of time, inconvenience, lodging & food (except as provided under the terms of the Trip Interruption coverage afforded by this Agreement), storage or other incidental or consequential loss or damage that may result from a FAILURE;
n) For diminution in VEHICLE value.

[Coldpants]

Originally Posted by PsyDoc

On paper...yes. In reality, no...the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act does not protect one like it probably should. You put in a new cam and add headers that voids your power train warranty. A few months later, when a power window switch shorts-out, the dealer cannot deny warranty work. However, if you have a future problem in the power train, then you have to prove that the problem is not related to or caused by the cam and headers that were installed. Technically, YOU have to prove that the actions/mods, etc. that you did had nothing to do with a particular failure.

Thats the other way round THEY have to prove your mod caused the fault. But it does not matter because they simply hold your car hostage if you choose to fight.

[derklug]

Originally Posted by rodimus prime

How is tuning a bolt on car any different than adjusting a carb on a bolt on car back in the day?

Back in the days of carbs, when dinosaurs ruled the earth, the factory installed anti-tamper plugs that had to be removed to adjust the carb. If a car came in under warranty and the plugs had been removed, dealerships could refuse warranty service unless the customer had a recept from a dealer that showed they had removed the plugs. We as mechanics just overlooked the missing plugs as it wasted more time to inform the service writer than you gained on flat rate for non-warranty work.

[Michael_Js]

Well, I have an appointment next Wed (1/13) at the dealer for them to tune out the decel popping We'll see what happens...

[Russell James]

Originally Posted by Michael_Js

Well, I have an appointment next Wed (1/13) at the dealer for them to tune out the decel popping We'll see what happens...

I wouldn't waste your time. Some knuckledragger will test drive (joy ride) your car and then tell you - operating to specifications. There is nothing in the tuning a dealer can change unless they have a revised factory calibration available.

Custom tuning is all aftermarket. A dealer, as an agent of the OEM, is prohibited by law from tampering with emissions compliant programming.
I'm sure some are blind to the law and have a little side business going, but the ones that read their mail from GM and the EPA aren't going to touch your programming.

[Michael_Js]

Originally Posted by Russell James

I wouldn't waste your time. Some knuckledragger will test drive (joy ride) your car and then tell you - operating to specifications. There is nothing in the tuning a dealer can change unless they have a revised factory calibration available.

Custom tuning is all aftermarket. A dealer, as an agent of the OEM, is prohibited by law from tampering with emissions compliant programming.
I'm sure some are blind to the law and have a little side business going, but the ones that read their mail from GM and the EPA aren't going to touch your programming.

Well, I guess we'll see on Wed afternoon My plan is to be there with them.

Thanks,
Michael J.

[Russell James]

Originally Posted by Michael_Js

Well, I guess we'll see on Wed afternoon My plan is to be there with them.

Thanks,
Michael J.

The way to tune out decel popping is to get the decel air fuel ratio more in line with perfect combustion under those conditions. This most often means richening up the decel fueling. When the decel AFR is lean, not all of it combusts because it is too lean to support optimum combustion. That leads to some raw fuel going out the exhaust. When it gets near the oxygen near the end of the system, pop pop.

I do custom tuning on Harley's and tune out decel popping all the time after someone adds a free flowing exhaust. Put a set of straight through pipes/mufflers on a Harley and they pop like crazy on decel, because the decel AFR is now way too lean. Richen up the decel fueling and now you get a sweet bwaaaaaaaaa sound on decel instead of pop pop pop.

No way in hell is a dealer going to do that kind of custom tuning. They don't have the tuning software, dyno, knowledge, or legal ability to do it.

Some knuckle dragging bubba will scratch his nutz and say - they all do that. Save yourself the wasted day and start looking for a good tuner if you really want to modify your tuning. Pic out a nice cold air intake, a sweet sounding exhaust, and a tuner that really knows his stuff and you'll be a happy camper.

Also don't expect to get rid of all decel popping. Often the nature of the beast, but proper tuning can minimize it.

[Michael_Js]

Well, sounds good. I was just trying to avoid warranty issues by going to the dealer. He said his tech guy was going to connect a tuner to the car and tune it...Guess I need to find a local San Diego tuner...

Anyone?

Thanks...

[Apex Paul]

Originally Posted by mjorgensen

Most warranty's say if ANY aftermarket part is used the power train can be voided (even air filters!)

The law has been tested and is pretty clear; aftermarket products do not void a vehicle warranty by the simple fact of putting them on the car. The only way (as wriiten in the law) for them to limit you from using only parts made by the manufacturer is to provide them free of charge, i.e. if they gave you a free Camaro they can then void your warranty for adding aftermarket parts.

From SAN "...the Act says warranty coverage may not be conditioned upon the use of only the vehicle manufacturer's parts unless the parts are provided free of charge. In other words, use of a non-carmaker product should not void your warranty unless it caused the problem."

Knowledge of the law can be very powerful when negotiating with a dealer that wants to void your warranty. And, if they choose to not operate as they should, then $35 and a trip to a local courthouse makes them answer in person in a court of law... and they won't want to do that, especially if they can't prove the aftermarket part is causative.

[SLOWHITE]

Here is a thread that has a copy of some bulletins pertaining to tuning.

http://www.tbssowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39677

Although this is out there, it is not the bible for dealserships. There is a dealership around here (who the GM is my neighbor and his kid is the service manager) that are very leanient when it comes to repairs. I will actually get a converter installed free when they fix my rear main leak for example. They do all kinds of stuff for G8's also, along those lines.