Not Good, GM wants another 16 or is it 9 Billion to Survive.

[UCF w00t]

Originally Posted by GrnMchin

It's called the freedom of choice that is a forded to us by the constitution and I can't change the past only help direct the future.

Thanks for the philisophy lesson Captain Obvious. And what does that have to do with anything?

Use the past to help guide us through the future. History repeats itself. We spent our way out of the great depression (*cough* social security *cough*) and it looks like this is the feds plan to get out of this one.

I still don't understand all the scrutiny of GM who actually makes physical products and employs millions of people (directly and indirectly) but the financial giants were given blank checks with no oversight when they move money around (not even physical money).

[RT21]

Originally Posted by GrnMchin

It's called the freedom of choice that is a forded to us by the constitution and I can't change the past only help direct the future.

On a lighter note...What ever happened to Olympia Beer? I loved that stuff...my grandma had cases of it.

[Milk 1027]

OMGZZZ. The sky is falling!!!!

again

some people need to calm down.

[UCF w00t]

Originally Posted by RT21

Chevy is NOT the biggest problem. This is a cover up for the 700 Billion pay off to the paper pushers at AIG and Sally Mae. This is chump change compared to what they are getting. The CEOs are getting 1 Billion dollar bonuses to not leave. Chevy has workers....workers....AIG and Sally clowns are pushing paper. Get mad at them...not Chevy. Yes, you and your children and your childrens children will be paying the price...but point the finger where it need to be pointed.

Well the idiots leading the financial companies aren't part of my generation and I was merely responding to the comments regarding "children and grandchildren" since I'm likely young enough to be many people on here's grandchild and it's my generation that will ultimately be affected by this the hardest. We're the ones at the bottom of the food chain when it comes to jobs and we'll be alive long enough to see this through.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by kylepo

what you people dont realize is if they went in to chap 11 the GOV would provide the chap 11 financing and that would cost alot more than what they are asking for now.

Uh, please explain how you figure this. Do you know how Chapter 11 works? It's the private businesses that take a hit that GM owes. Not entirely but they get a minimum of what their owed and over time. Yes the Gov would pay some, but not anywhere close to 16.6 Billion dollars. The gov. would get the money they allready spent, Back.

How do you figure?

[rmyers]

Originally Posted by kylepo

Not a GM employee. And 30 dollars an hour? Get a clue.

Originally Posted by irpq11

Uh, please explain how you figure this. Do you know how Chapter 11 works? It's the private businesses that take a hit that GM owes. Not entirely but they get a minimum of what their owed and over time. Yes the Gov would pay some, but not anywhere close to 16.6 Billion dollars. The gov. would get the money they allready spent, Back.

How do you figure?

Since you have appointed yourself the expert on this issue, you should know that the average cost for hourly employees including all benefits is higher then that number. This number includes retired employees that still collect benefits but are not employed by GM. While I am getting a clue, I look forward to your explanation of how it is the Federal Government is involved in the financing of Chapter 11? This is a serious question that I have asked someone esle on this forum to explain, when they essentially said the same thing you did, but they could not. While you are doing that, and since it will take me so long to get a clue, please show me in the constitution where such financing by our government is called out. I look forward to the education and I am being serious not sarcastic at all.

[GrnMchin]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

Thanks for the philisophy lesson Captain Obvious. And what does that have to do with anything?

Use the past to help guide us through the future. History repeats itself. We spent our way out of the great depression (*cough* social security *cough*) and it looks like this is the feds plan to get out of this one.

I still don't understand all the scrutiny of GM who actually makes physical products and employs millions of people (directly and indirectly) but the financial giants were given blank checks with no oversight when they move money around (not even physical money).

Job creation and yes social programs help lead us out of the Great Depression the same could be said of what they are trying to due currently (save job) by giving bailouts. I also don't disagree with you on the lac of oversight in the first bailout. I don't like it any more then you, the past is the past and yes learn from it just don't dwell on it.

[kylepo]

Originally Posted by irpq11

Uh, please explain how you figure this. Do you know how Chapter 11 works? It's the private businesses that take a hit that GM owes. Not entirely but they get a minimum of what their owed and over time. Yes the Gov would pay some, but not anywhere close to 16.6 Billion dollars. The gov. would get the money they allready spent, Back.

How do you figure?

when companies go in to chap 11 they need money to do that correct? The credit markets are still pretty frozen they are getting better but NO one would provide the chap 11 financing for GM and so that leaves the gov and our tax dollars. Some analysts say that it could cost up th 100 billion to do a chap 11 and guess where that is coming from?

[rmyers]

Originally Posted by GrnMchin

Job creation and yes social programs help lead us out of the Great Depression the same could be said of what they are trying to due currently (save job) by giving bailouts. I also don't disagree with you on the lac of oversight in the first bailout. I don't like it any more then you, the past is the past and yes learn from it just don't dwell on it.

Some people have argued very convincingly that our government's involvment during that time only pro-longed the depression. I happen to agree with them. Secondly anyone comparing this time with the great depression should really revisit their history books. We aren't even close. In fact this isin't even the worst recession yet by comparison to others.

[kylepo]

Originally Posted by rmyers

Since you have appointed yourself the expert on this issue, you should know that the average cost for hourly employees including all benefits is higher then that number. This number includes retired employees that still collect benefits but are not employed by GM. While I am getting a clue, I look forward to your explanation of how it is the Federal Government is involved in the financing of Chapter 11? This is a serious question that I have asked someone esle on this forum to explain, when they essentially said the same thing you did, but they could not. While you are doing that, and since it will take me so long to get a clue, please show me in the constitution where such financing by our government is called out. I look forward to the education and I am being serious not sarcastic at all.

CURRENT UAW workers hourly pay is around equal to the transplants. DO a search anywhere and you will find this to be true. I’m betting you are thinking about the 70 dollar and hour figure that many were throwing around. But that is divided by all retirees compared to the transplants current work force because they have virtually no retirees. And refer to my other post on who would provide chap 11 financing even though that is a non issue because chap 11 would lead to chap 7 liquidation.

[leviticus88]

Originally Posted by rmyers

Some people have argued very convincingly that our government's involvment during that time only pro-longed the depression. I happen to agree with them.

I absolutley believe this!

The CBO (Congress Budget Office) said just last week "The GDP will be better off without the bailout/stimulous (in three years or so)" Then why the hell are we doing it?! The Congress Budget Office said this!!!

Read Link:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ver-long-haul/

[PQ]

Originally Posted by kylepo

when companies go in to chap 11 they need money to do that correct? The credit markets are still pretty frozen they are getting better but NO one would provide the chap 11 financing for GM and so that leaves the gov and our tax dollars. Some analysts say that it could cost up th 100 billion to do a chap 11 and guess where that is coming from?

I'm not being a smart alec here, really. Can you guide me to this info? It just doesn't compute. GM would initialy owe nothing. After the proceedings GM would then be on a schedule. And I'm fairly certain that the businesses that GM owes, would still do business with them but on a cash basis. With no initial debt, GM would have operating capitol. People don't utilize the Chap. 11 option because it costs more. And in both Chap. 7, and 11 it's the businesses that take the hit. You don't think that the Gov. pays the businesses that a filer owes do you? Maybe I missed something. 100 Bil?

[GrnMchin]

Originally Posted by rmyers

Some people have argued very convincingly that our government's involvment during that time only pro-longed the depression. I happen to agree with them.

At first the Gov let all the banks that where involved in the market fail once it crashed. The the wave hit when the banks started to ask for the all outstanding loans due to keep afloat (FDIC program was developed from this) when the rush to pull out any saving by the average Joe hit the bank said sorry don't have it then the cycle started all over again. I have studied and most of the common conception was it started to stabilize once the Gov stepped in, but like most thing you could say two sides to every story.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by leviticus88

I absolutley believe this!

The CBO (Congress Budget Office) said just last week "The GDP will be better off without the bailout/stimulous (in three years or so)" Then why the hell are we doing it?! The Congress Budget Office said this!!!

Read Link:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ver-long-haul/

GDP was about 80% 40 or so years ago. I think it's down to between 15 and 20% now. I could be wrong. But at any rate we certainly can't afford for it to get any worse.