Too little too late?

[JustinZS]

Originally Posted by smike07

GM will not suffer from the delay of the Camaro. Just from this forum alone, that's 2150 new Camaros sold. That's not to mention everyone who looks at this site as reliable information, those who fell in love with it when they saw Transformers, and those who have no idea the Camaro will be out in March of '09. GM will do fine.

And that's just from the registered members you can see. Look at the photos threads on this site, a lot of them have views in the tens of thousands! There's a ton of lurkers and interested people here who probably won't even sign up until closer to launch.

[stovt001]

Originally Posted by Silverado

Someone asked about any vehicles in recent memory that had "shorter" concept-to-production times....the Viper...18 months, the Prowler...also 18 months...the New Beetle was somewhere in the 20 month category...there are others, but you get the point. It can be done. I'm not arguing for or against the time it's taken for the Camaro (it is what it is), I'm just saying it can be done.

So a nearly extinct vehicle, an extinct vehicle with an unusually short life, and the ultimate teeny-bopper mobile. I'll take the long development time on the Camaro, thanks plenty.

[z28camaro2471]

Originally Posted by Silverado

Tesla...fantastic concept, decent excution of that concept....couple problems....not a $75K car, it's over $100K.

I was being lazy and didn't feel like looking up the price. Thanks. I knew for certain it was over $75k, just couldn't remember if it was over $100k. Just trying to point out that it's EXPENSIVE.

[Silverado]

Originally Posted by stovt001

So a nearly extinct vehicle, an extinct vehicle with an unusually short life, and the ultimate teeny-bopper mobile. I'll take the long development time on the Camaro, thanks plenty.

Yeah, I was waiting for someone to bring that up.

First, they were just examples of shorter concept-to-production times.

Second, yes, the Prowler was poorly excuted, but that had more to do with price for what you got and lack of power, not styling, quality, etc.

Third, you mention the nearly extinct Viper...true, nearly, not yet dead, but probably...of course, that shouldn't discount the nearly 20 year run it had as one of the most affordable, high-performance machines on the market.

Finally, sure you can call it the "teeny-bopper mobile", but you can't deny that they sell a bunch of them. And, it was a "resurrection" of an old vehicle (somewhat similar to what GM's doing with the Camaro) inspired by a previous vehicle, but done with a modern approach. Don't get me wrong, I would never buy a Bug, but, VW did what GM's doing now. They had a much longer time between the death of the original and the start of the new than GM does. Most of their previous "fan base" was no longer interested in that type of vehicle, and quite a few of them were no longer around, so VW had to get a whole new fan base. Short development period, but a solid product...has been for years, with no signs of slowing down.

Again though, the comment originally asked "when was the last time a concept came to market that fast"...I was merely pointing out that it has happened and not all that long ago. I'd bet the reality is that with CAD systems, computer model testing, etc concept-to-production times now are much less than they were "back in the day". And, they will probably get shorter in the future too.

[LS9CamaroSS]

Originally Posted by Silverado

Yeah, I was waiting for someone to bring that up.

First, they were just examples of shorter concept-to-production times.

Second, yes, the Prowler was poorly excuted, but that had more to do with price for what you got and lack of power, not styling, quality, etc.

Third, you mention the nearly extinct Viper...true, nearly, not yet dead, but probably...of course, that shouldn't discount the nearly 20 year run it had as one of the most affordable, high-performance machines on the market.

Finally, sure you can call it the "teeny-bopper mobile", but you can't deny that they sell a bunch of them. And, it was a "resurrection" of an old vehicle (somewhat similar to what GM's doing with the Camaro) inspired by a previous vehicle, but done with a modern approach. Don't get me wrong, I would never buy a Bug, but, VW did what GM's doing now. They had a much longer time between the death of the original and the start of the new than GM does. Most of their previous "fan base" was no longer interested in that type of vehicle, and quite a few of them were no longer around, so VW had to get a whole new fan base. Short development period, but a solid product...has been for years, with no signs of slowing down.

Again though, the comment originally asked "when was the last time a concept came to market that fast"...I was merely pointing out that it has happened and not all that long ago. I'd bet the reality is that with CAD systems, computer model testing, etc concept-to-production times now are much less than they were "back in the day". And, they will probably get shorter in the future too.

aren't there a lot of vipers sold over seas though? i didn't realize they were as lethargic as mentioned here... i assumed that since they are the vette's #1 competitor (this is my opinion basically because of the prices...) that they were doing better than this...

[LS9CamaroSS]

Originally Posted by JustinS

And that's just from the registered members you can see. Look at the photos threads on this site, a lot of them have views in the tens of thousands! There's a ton of lurkers and interested people here who probably won't even sign up until closer to launch.

well... depending on how much the V6 Camaro will cost (and i hope to god it isn't a hybrid... i want straight up American muscle) i might be able to get one... i hope... lol I'll be the coolest 20 y/o around well the coolest one that bought it himself

[Silverado]

The only reason the Viper is almost dead is that Chrysler is having some financial issues. Some could argue that it makes the most business sense for them to kill of that car and work on others that have a a higher profit margin.

[2KZ28_For_Now]

Originally Posted by Silverado

The only reason the Viper is almost dead is that Chrysler is having some financial issues. Some could argue that it makes the most business sense for them to kill of that car and work on others that have a a higher profit margin.

The "mother ship's" woes,as mentioned above, plus the CAFE standards, plus the fact that there are probably STILL some '06 Vipers on the showroom floors all equal eventual death for the Viper.

And, the Corvette, in it's current form, is pretty much extinct as well.

The name badge will go on, andthe styling will be similar, but the current C6 'Vette will be the last big-engine, high-hp 'Vette.

The C7 is rumored to be a midship platform, with possibly "green" low-displacement powertrain (even though it hasn't even begun development yet).

Moral of the story: enjoy your American-Made large-displacement, high-hp V8's from the factory now, folks. They are DEFINITELY an endangered species.

All that being said, I know engineering will still allow for fast and quick cars in the future. They just won't have the fun "V8 rumble" we all know and love dearly.

(I will step away from the keyboard now before I lose everyone).

[LS9CamaroSS]

Originally Posted by 2KZ28_For_Now

The "mother ship's" woes,as mentioned above, plus the CAFE standards, plus the fact that there are probably STILL some '06 Vipers on the showroom floors all equal eventual death for the Viper.

And, the Corvette, in it's current form, is pretty much extinct as well.

The name badge will go on, andthe styling will be similar, but the current C6 'Vette will be the last big-engine, high-hp 'Vette.

The C7 is rumored to be a midship platform, with possibly "green" low-displacement powertrain (even though it hasn't even begun development yet).

Moral of the story: enjoy your American-Made large-displacement, high-hp V8's from the factory now, folks. They are DEFINITELY an endangered species.

All that being said, I know engineering will still allow for fast and quick cars in the future. They just won't have the fun "V8 rumble" we all know and love dearly.

(I will step away from the keyboard now before I lose everyone).

i've heard rumors of death for the vette before and chevy has delivered on haritage when all was said and done...

[2KZ28_For_Now]

Originally Posted by LS9CamaroSS

i've heard rumors of death for the vette before and chevy has delivered on haritage when all was said and done...

Vette's not going away, its just going to be very, very different for the next-gen (according to rumor and conventional wisdom).

sorry for the

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by 2KZ28_For_Now

Vette's not going away, its just going to be very, very different for the next-gen (according to rumor and conventional wisdom).

sorry for the

I do believe that the mid-engine setup was shot down more than a few times. I'll see if I can find the article/mag. (not home right now)

And I agree, it will lose some weight. And the engine will be smaller. But I severly doubt you'll ever see a Vette with less than a V8. (that was also in the article/mag...when I find it)

[stovt001]

The midengine question comes up EVERY time the Corvette is up for a new generation. I don't take it seriously anymore. Yes I'm sure the next one will be smaller and lighter, maybe even with less power, but it won't be emasculated. It is too low volume to have much effect on CAFE, but it also sells well enough to be one of Chevy's greatest successes and they won't screw with it much. Maybe the next one will have a bit less power, but it will still be nearly the exact same formula of light-weight body, V8 power, front engine, RWD.

[2KZ28_For_Now]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I do believe that the mid-engine setup was shot down more than a few times. I'll see if I can find the article/mag. (not home right now)

And I agree, it will lose some weight. And the engine will be smaller. But I severly doubt you'll ever see a Vette with less than a V8. (that was also in the article/mag...when I find it)

fair enough. thanks. personally i hope the vette stays like it is forever.

guess my point was large-displacement engined, high-hp cars are going away.

they may still find a way to get great power from the newer engine designs, but what was introduced in the 60's is finally going away 40 yrs later.

not necessarily a bad thing, but does make you nostalgic once theyre gone.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by 2KZ28_For_Now

fair enough. thanks. personally i hope the vette stays like it is forever.

guess my point was large-displacement engined, high-hp cars are going away.

they may still find a way to get great power from the newer engine designs, but what was introduced in the 60's is finally going away 40 yrs later.

not necessarily a bad thing, but does make you nostalgic once theyre gone.

That might be true, but if we kept the same way of thinking about power forever, we would never discover the potential in other technologies. Imagine if we still thought steam was the best way to power a motor. Without trying something else, we wouldn't have cars like we do today. Instead, we'd have canals instead of roads and tiny steamboats instead of automobiles. Seriously though, we need to consider what we can do with less displacement. Hopefully, we can bring back large displacement with more efficiency and less toxic fuel sources.