kooks or arh headers - Page 3 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

vsgls1 · 07-22-2009, 10:19 PM

Agree with everything said about ARH headers.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32070

HaddadMotorsports · 07-23-2009, 12:56 AM

You can't really go wrong with either brand, we deal with both companies and they are both top notch.

For those of you wondering. You absolutely must get a tune when doing long tube headers. They change the airflow dynamics of the motor enough to warrant a tune. Over the years we have had several customers come through our shop with nothing but headers on there lsx cars, and more than a few have had piston damage due to long term detonation.

GM spends a lot of money dialing these cars in. Any mod thats in excess of 10rwhp in gains should be followed with some kind of dyno tune.

Thanks
Mike Haddad

BOBSS · 07-23-2009, 01:24 AM

first try

2010 ss 6mt, ARH headers (Nickey Edition), open QTP cutouts after cats, steel HAI

Sure SM58 mono to Canon Optura 300 (sensitivity near zero), stereo playback from camera, to soundcard (turtle beeach), into MS stock recording program (only one minute clips), to .WAV, over the net to you in this forum. I was hoping for something very different, but here it is, the open header victory run at 401 RWTq on a mustang dyno.
I think the mic is the culprit, I don't detect anything under 500 Hz and this run had complete control of my sternum
This is zipped so I can upload it.
It is a part of the ramp up on the final run, I then turned up the sensitivity for a cool down.

I have the impression that it would take 5k worth of gear to "try" to replicate what you can do for 4, and you would only have a file.

more files to follow; last run closed, last run open

mustang6.zip

BOBSS · 07-23-2009, 01:34 AM

mustang4 is closed, 5 is open

does anyone know what mic will capture 10 Hz and above at 120+ dB?
The SM58 cannot.

mustang4.zip

mustang5.zip

what a day.
The corvette in the air to the right had Kooks, gorgeous & had a 5th bung for the wideband O2, which mine did not, therefore no tune on the open headers.
The ZR1 caliper blue 68 (?) was too much, I felt bad for getting the 2010, this thing was fine. That's my RJT in bondage
The black 4th gen SS to the left had an LSX with the nicest intake manifold I've ever seen. and I'm pretty sure it detroyed my microphone when it was running, I have that file.

Name: IMG_3701.jpg
Views: 498
Size: 94.5 KB

Name: IMG_3701.jpg
Views: 498
Size: 94.5 KB

Tom@ARH · 07-23-2009, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeeZee

Kooks, beter stainless steel and polished / heat treated

What steel are they using that's better than American 304 stainless. You don't heat treat headers.

mark_p · 07-24-2009, 09:09 AM

There are many grades of stainless. If both companies are using 304 then I would want to know if they are using 304H grade versues straight 304 or 304L. the 304H will be more expensive material as it has a higher carbon content than straight grade. the 304H will handle the heat MUCH BETTER!!! for any prolonged time. So tom, are you guys using 304H grade. Ifn not what is the carbon content of your stainless. AND NO STANLESS IS EVER HEAT TREATED. It gives no benefit what so ever. Heat treats will be for carbon based steels and chrome molly's. Forgive for getting technical but I am mechanical/materials engineer and deal with specing materails on daily basis for nuclear and refinery work..

SS_in_Black · 07-24-2009, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark_p

There are many grades of stainless. If both companies are using 304 then I would want to know if they are using 304H grade versues straight 304 or 304L. the 304H will be more expensive material as it has a higher carbon content than straight grade. the 304H will handle the heat MUCH BETTER!!! for any prolonged time. So tom, are you guys using 304H grade. Ifn not what is the carbon content of your stainless. AND NO STANLESS IS EVER HEAT TREATED. It gives no benefit what so ever. Heat treats will be for carbon based steels and chrome molly's. Forgive for getting technical but I am mechanical/materials engineer and deal with specing materails on daily basis for nuclear and refinery work..

Gotta love engineers

I'm an electro-mechanical engineer by trade. Can't wait for the response here.

rharon · 07-25-2009, 10:58 AM

I can't open the files can you post those videos to YouTube.

BOBSS · 07-25-2009, 01:41 PM

extract the .wav file using this
http://www.winzip.com/downse.htm

Gabe · 07-25-2009, 01:48 PM

I'm sure the AR headers are awesome i had a question though. Did you notice a color change in the headers themselves due to heat? They look brown now. I have seen the pic's on other header (for example the Doug Thorley's) and they don't seem to be doing that. What are your thoughts? Or maybe the people who have each can elaborate on HP gains/look/feel. I wouldn't want to leave anything or sacrifice one thing for the other.

Tom@ARH · 07-25-2009, 09:11 PM

raw stainless will brown slighly for abot 2" of the primary where it exits the head it's normal but thats all it will ever do. I believe the thorley system is coated mild steel which depending on climate and annual miles driven will slowly degrade and rust. it also depends on the quality of the coating used. A stailess steel header will disapate better and more evenly than a mild steel header so from a performance standpoint it's not a necessity but more of a cosmetic addition. Some claim they need it to lower underhood temps, But how much heat do you think the cast iron manifolds that came on the car generated or kept for a longer period of time than stainless? On a mild steel header coating is a must. That's enough of a rant for now sorry

rickjames · 07-25-2009, 09:52 PM

ordered ARH without cats on 7/22/09. said i would recieve in 2 weeks. i can't wait.

rharon · 07-26-2009, 01:34 AM

I did that, I still cant unzip these files. has anyone else been able to hear it?
Can you post it to youtube? Sorry just stoked to hear it...Ok i am jealous too :-)

Kilo-9 · 07-26-2009, 02:02 AM

Tom, do you offer ceramic coating as an option on your headers? I like it for cosmetic reasons...

07-22-2009, 10:19 PM	#29
vsgls1 Drives: 07 GMC Sierra Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Palm Bay, FL Posts: 421	Agree with everything said about ARH headers. http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32070 __________________ Keith 2SS/RS MN6 in CGM. Delivered 6/22/09. Blown 7/29/09. Sold 12/6/10. 07 GMC Sierra

07-23-2009, 01:34 AM	#32
BOBSS Outlaw Drives: 2010SS Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Mooresville NC Posts: 299	mustang4 is closed, 5 is open does anyone know what mic will capture 10 Hz and above at 120+ dB? The SM58 cannot. mustang4.zip mustang5.zip what a day. The corvette in the air to the right had Kooks, gorgeous & had a 5th bung for the wideband O2, which mine did not, therefore no tune on the open headers. The ZR1 caliper blue 68 (?) was too much, I felt bad for getting the 2010, this thing was fine. That's my RJT in bondage The black 4th gen SS to the left had an LSX with the nicest intake manifold I've ever seen. and I'm pretty sure it detroyed my microphone when it was running, I have that file. Last edited by BOBSS; 07-24-2009 at 02:42 AM.

07-25-2009, 01:48 PM	#38
Gabe Drives: '10 Camaro 2SS/'65 Malibu SS Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Killa' Cali Posts: 185 View My Garage	I'm sure the AR headers are awesome i had a question though. Did you notice a color change in the headers themselves due to heat? They look brown now. I have seen the pic's on other header (for example the Doug Thorley's) and they don't seem to be doing that. What are your thoughts? Or maybe the people who have each can elaborate on HP gains/look/feel. I wouldn't want to leave anything or sacrifice one thing for the other. __________________ NMCVBC - CGM 2SS/RS/BLK/A6 (original order date): 06/27/09 3000 (accepted to production): 08/17/2009 TPW 3300 (scheduled for prod): 08/17/09 3400 (broadcast): 08/18/09 3800 (produced): 08/22/09 A9138699 4200 (shipped): 8/24/09 5000 (at dealer): 09/04/09 6000 (del to cus): 09/04/09

07-26-2009, 02:02 AM	#42
Kilo-9 Dog Is My Copilot Drives: 2011 2SS/RS LS3 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 1,394	Tom, do you offer ceramic coating as an option on your headers? I like it for cosmetic reasons... __________________

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07-23-2009, 12:56 AM	#30
HaddadMotorsports Drives: Camaro Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Inglewood Posts: 532	You can't really go wrong with either brand, we deal with both companies and they are both top notch. For those of you wondering. You absolutely must get a tune when doing long tube headers. They change the airflow dynamics of the motor enough to warrant a tune. Over the years we have had several customers come through our shop with nothing but headers on there lsx cars, and more than a few have had piston damage due to long term detonation. GM spends a lot of money dialing these cars in. Any mod thats in excess of 10rwhp in gains should be followed with some kind of dyno tune. Thanks Mike Haddad

07-23-2009, 01:24 AM	#31
BOBSS Outlaw Drives: 2010SS Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Mooresville NC Posts: 299	first try 2010 ss 6mt, ARH headers (Nickey Edition), open QTP cutouts after cats, steel HAI Sure SM58 mono to Canon Optura 300 (sensitivity near zero), stereo playback from camera, to soundcard (turtle beeach), into MS stock recording program (only one minute clips), to .WAV, over the net to you in this forum. I was hoping for something very different, but here it is, the open header victory run at 401 RWTq on a mustang dyno. I think the mic is the culprit, I don't detect anything under 500 Hz and this run had complete control of my sternum This is zipped so I can upload it. It is a part of the ramp up on the final run, I then turned up the sensitivity for a cool down. I have the impression that it would take 5k worth of gear to "try" to replicate what you can do for 4, and you would only have a file. more files to follow; last run closed, last run open mustang6.zip

07-24-2009, 09:09 AM	#34
mark_p Drives: 2010 2SSRS m6 Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Memphis ntn Posts: 225	There are many grades of stainless. If both companies are using 304 then I would want to know if they are using 304H grade versues straight 304 or 304L. the 304H will be more expensive material as it has a higher carbon content than straight grade. the 304H will handle the heat MUCH BETTER!!! for any prolonged time. So tom, are you guys using 304H grade. Ifn not what is the carbon content of your stainless. AND NO STANLESS IS EVER HEAT TREATED. It gives no benefit what so ever. Heat treats will be for carbon based steels and chrome molly's. Forgive for getting technical but I am mechanical/materials engineer and deal with specing materails on daily basis for nuclear and refinery work..

07-25-2009, 10:58 AM	#36
rharon Drives: 2010 Yellow 2SS/RS Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Fresno / Clovis , CA Posts: 328 View My Garage	I can't open the files can you post those videos to YouTube.

07-25-2009, 01:41 PM	#37
BOBSS Outlaw Drives: 2010SS Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Mooresville NC Posts: 299	extract the .wav file using this http://www.winzip.com/downse.htm

07-25-2009, 09:11 PM	#39
Tom@ARH Drives: 2003 Corvette ZO6 Join Date: May 2009 Location: L.I.N.Y. Posts: 48	raw stainless will brown slighly for abot 2" of the primary where it exits the head it's normal but thats all it will ever do. I believe the thorley system is coated mild steel which depending on climate and annual miles driven will slowly degrade and rust. it also depends on the quality of the coating used. A stailess steel header will disapate better and more evenly than a mild steel header so from a performance standpoint it's not a necessity but more of a cosmetic addition. Some claim they need it to lower underhood temps, But how much heat do you think the cast iron manifolds that came on the car generated or kept for a longer period of time than stainless? On a mild steel header coating is a must. That's enough of a rant for now sorry

07-25-2009, 09:52 PM	#40
rickjames Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Harlan KY Posts: 58 View My Garage	ordered ARH without cats on 7/22/09. said i would recieve in 2 weeks. i can't wait.

07-26-2009, 01:34 AM	#41
rharon Drives: 2010 Yellow 2SS/RS Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Fresno / Clovis , CA Posts: 328 View My Garage	I did that, I still cant unzip these files. has anyone else been able to hear it? Can you post it to youtube? Sorry just stoked to hear it...Ok i am jealous too :-)