Mixing fuels - Page 3 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Sven59 · 08-02-2014, 10:03 PM

Ok, that makes sense!

jon6.0 · 08-02-2014, 10:09 PM

If you aren't changing the tune then all you need is a mix of 93-94 octane to get the most out of the stock tune. Any higher octane would just be a waste of money.

Sven59 · 08-02-2014, 10:11 PM

Thanks!

ZO6 Bryan · 08-02-2014, 10:13 PM

You really need to be able to scan the car to see if you're doing any good. There is a parameter called "Knock Learn Factor" This KLF goes from 0.00 to 1.00
0.00 means no knock learn is happening. People don't understand that the PCM doesn't switch to the low octane table. It blends the high octane table and low octane table.

0.00 all high octane table
1.00 all low octane table
0.14 is 14% low octane and 86% high octane table.

And this KLF will move around quite a bit in a car that is getting knock. Until the PCM doesn't hear any knock. Every now and then the PCM will add back some timing and if it doesn't hear any knock it will shift back to the high octane table numbers a little at a time. If you use good gas the KLF should stay at 0.00 all the time. If you get a "custom tune" and they try to get too aggressive with the timing you're shooting yourself in the foot because the PCM will shift to the low octane table. A well tuned car should keep a KLF of 0.00 all the time.

Any questions?

white ZL1 · 08-02-2014, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jon6.0

If you aren't changing the tune then all you need is a mix of 93-94 octane to get the most out of the stock tune. Any higher octane would just be a waste of money.

1000% agreed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZO6 Bryan

You really need to be able to scan the car to see if you're doing any good. There is a parameter called "Knock Learn Factor" This KLF goes from 0.00 to 1.00
0.00 means no knock learn is happening. People don't understand that the PCM doesn't switch to the low octane table. It blends the high octane table and low octane table. 0.00 all high octane table
1.00 all low octane table
0.14 is 14% low octane and 86% high octane table.

And this KLF will move around quite a bit in a car that is getting knock. Until the PCM doesn't hear any knock. Every now and then the PCM will add back some timing and if it doesn't hear any knock it will shift back to the high octane table numbers a little at a time. If you use good gas the KLF should stay at 0.00 all the time. If you get a "custom tune" and they try to get too aggressive with the timing you're shooting yourself in the foot because the PCM will shift to the low octane table. A well tuned car should keep a KLF of 0.00 all the time.

Any questions?

Very well explained. Unfortunately very few people will read and/or understand that.

Sven59 · 08-02-2014, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZO6 Bryan

You really need to be able to scan the car to see if you're doing any good. There is a parameter called "Knock Learn Factor" This KLF goes from 0.00 to 1.00
0.00 means no knock learn is happening. People don't understand that the PCM doesn't switch to the low octane table. It blends the high octane table and low octane table.

0.00 all high octane table
1.00 all low octane table
0.14 is 14% low octane and 86% high octane table.

And this KLF will move around quite a bit in a car that is getting knock. Until the PCM doesn't hear any knock. Every now and then the PCM will add back some timing and if it doesn't hear any knock it will shift back to the high octane table numbers a little at a time. If you use good gas the KLF should stay at 0.00 all the time. If you get a "custom tune" and they try to get too aggressive with the timing you're shooting yourself in the foot because the PCM will shift to the low octane table. A well tuned car should keep a KLF of 0.00 all the time.

Any questions?

I have a dash logic so I should be able to monitor there, correct?

jon6.0 · 08-02-2014, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sven59

I have a dash logic so I should be able to monitor there, correct?

I think so. Might have to manually enter the PID. I think it's 2610 per this thread. http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7857792

Sven59 · 08-02-2014, 10:29 PM

This has been very educational, thanks guys!

ZO6 Bryan · 08-02-2014, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sven59

I have a dash logic so I should be able to monitor there, correct?

Should be able to monitor KR "knock retard" for sure. I don't know if it supports reading KLF "Knock Learn Factor"

If KLF has done it's job you won't get any KR. So you could possible think "I don't get any Knock Retard" But if KLF is say 0.60 then timing has been pulled but you won't see any KR because the PCM has already pulled the timing back.

Sven59 · 08-02-2014, 10:31 PM

I know it supports KR, I just got it yesterday. Not sure about KLF. I will research that.

Bigtime53 · 08-02-2014, 10:34 PM

Just the short time I got to drive my car today with the dashlogic I believe I did see the knock retard on my hud.

ZO6 Bryan · 08-02-2014, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jon6.0

I think so. Might have to manually enter the PID. I think it's 2610 per this thread. http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7857792

Some misinformation in that thread. KLF is not the same as "burst knock" And burst knock will not show up as KR. It has to logged separately.

jon6.0 · 08-02-2014, 10:42 PM

I turn off burst knock on any car of mine that gets tuned. For those that don't know, burst knock is basically a predictive thing. The ECU pulls timing based on when it thinks what you are doing might cause knock.

ZO6 Bryan · 08-02-2014, 10:46 PM

Just for instance I'll show you here how many PIDs there are for spark advance and spark retard.

08-02-2014, 10:03 PM	#29
Sven59 HAMMER PILOT Drives: 13 ZL1#182, 85 CJ7, 16 Silverado Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 4,387	Ok, that makes sense! __________________ "DO YOU WANT ME TO PUT THE HAMMER DOWN?"

08-02-2014, 10:09 PM	#30
jon6.0 Going for Plaid Drives: 2011 C6 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Phoenix Posts: 885	If you aren't changing the tune then all you need is a mix of 93-94 octane to get the most out of the stock tune. Any higher octane would just be a waste of money. __________________ 2014 ZL1, manual trans, carbon hood insert, Rotofab, Pacesetter 1 7/8" headers, 1" drop BMR springs, stock pulleys, 91 octane tune, 545rwhp & 515rwtq Serviced and modded by Cordes Performance. 2011 C6, 750rwhp, forged LS3, ported LSA heads, Vortech Ti-trim, 227/243 115+4 Lunati cam, ported LS3 intake, Alky Control methanol, Pfadt sways/shocks/trans mounts, Pfadt tri-y headers(Sold 6/28/14)

08-02-2014, 10:11 PM	#31
Sven59 HAMMER PILOT Drives: 13 ZL1#182, 85 CJ7, 16 Silverado Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 4,387	Thanks! __________________ "DO YOU WANT ME TO PUT THE HAMMER DOWN?"

08-02-2014, 10:13 PM	#32
ZO6 Bryan Drives: 02 Z06, 95 Trans Am, 2012 ZL1 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Southeast Posts: 1,838 View My Garage	You really need to be able to scan the car to see if you're doing any good. There is a parameter called "Knock Learn Factor" This KLF goes from 0.00 to 1.00 0.00 means no knock learn is happening. People don't understand that the PCM doesn't switch to the low octane table. It blends the high octane table and low octane table. 0.00 all high octane table 1.00 all low octane table 0.14 is 14% low octane and 86% high octane table. And this KLF will move around quite a bit in a car that is getting knock. Until the PCM doesn't hear any knock. Every now and then the PCM will add back some timing and if it doesn't hear any knock it will shift back to the high octane table numbers a little at a time. If you use good gas the KLF should stay at 0.00 all the time. If you get a "custom tune" and they try to get too aggressive with the timing you're shooting yourself in the foot because the PCM will shift to the low octane table. A well tuned car should keep a KLF of 0.00 all the time. Any questions? __________________ Bryan 2018 ZL1 M6

08-02-2014, 10:29 PM	#36
Sven59 HAMMER PILOT Drives: 13 ZL1#182, 85 CJ7, 16 Silverado Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 4,387	This has been very educational, thanks guys! __________________ "DO YOU WANT ME TO PUT THE HAMMER DOWN?"

08-02-2014, 10:31 PM	#38
Sven59 HAMMER PILOT Drives: 13 ZL1#182, 85 CJ7, 16 Silverado Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 4,387	I know it supports KR, I just got it yesterday. Not sure about KLF. I will research that. __________________ "DO YOU WANT ME TO PUT THE HAMMER DOWN?"

08-02-2014, 10:34 PM	#39
Bigtime53 Drives: 2013 ZL1 Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 2,326	Just the short time I got to drive my car today with the dashlogic I believe I did see the knock retard on my hud.

08-02-2014, 10:42 PM	#41
jon6.0 Going for Plaid Drives: 2011 C6 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Phoenix Posts: 885	I turn off burst knock on any car of mine that gets tuned. For those that don't know, burst knock is basically a predictive thing. The ECU pulls timing based on when it thinks what you are doing might cause knock. __________________ 2014 ZL1, manual trans, carbon hood insert, Rotofab, Pacesetter 1 7/8" headers, 1" drop BMR springs, stock pulleys, 91 octane tune, 545rwhp & 515rwtq Serviced and modded by Cordes Performance. 2011 C6, 750rwhp, forged LS3, ported LSA heads, Vortech Ti-trim, 227/243 115+4 Lunati cam, ported LS3 intake, Alky Control methanol, Pfadt sways/shocks/trans mounts, Pfadt tri-y headers(Sold 6/28/14)

08-02-2014, 10:46 PM	#42
ZO6 Bryan Drives: 02 Z06, 95 Trans Am, 2012 ZL1 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Southeast Posts: 1,838 View My Garage	Just for instance I'll show you here how many PIDs there are for spark advance and spark retard. Attached Images __________________ Bryan 2018 ZL1 M6