Whats This Sound!? (First Starts After Heads/Cam Install

[booneSS13]

Also not to mention I relashed the valves and they were way too tight I had to muscle them loose before I torqued them back to 22lbs but the noise didn't go away a few days ago. I'm really disappointed in the workmanship of this shop

[christianchevell]

I wonder if he melted your cats with his torch?

[Livernois Motorsports]

remember, there is more to setting up the pushrods than simply tightening them to specification. You have to make certain preload is proper as well. We also do our best to send the length pushrod that it should take, but just like with PTV, pushrod length always needs to be verified.

[BOSS_HOSS]

It kills me every time I read about "pushrod length is this" and PTV "should ok". You simply don't know until both are measured. I have the 2R max with their heads and pushrod length came out just under 7.400 so I had them custom made by Manton. Livernois never once said "your pushrod length will be this"...instead it was "you have to measure to be sure". Engine made good power (521 to the wheels) on a humid day and the valvetrain is silent (as much as an LS can be)...point is you have to measure.

[booneSS13]

Originally Posted by BOSS_HOSS

It kills me every time I read about "pushrod length is this" and PTV "should ok". You simply don't know until both are measured. I have the 2R max with their heads and pushrod length came out just under 7.400 so I had them custom made by Manton. Livernois never once said "your pushrod length will be this"...instead it was "you have to measure to be sure". Engine made good power (521 to the wheels) on a humid day and the valvetrain is silent (as much as an LS can be)...point is you have to measure.

Wish I could say the same. I actually had 3 different people from Livernois tell me that I should be using the 7.425" pushrods which is why I ordered them from them. Nobody ever said anything about using a pushrod checker or measuring them. Instead I was told that "we use this length pushrods on all of our builds with that combination and you don't want to go anything less than 7.400" or it will make the noise worse". And I know I should check anyway but this is my first build and I am new to this and now I feel like I've been mislead

[booneSS13]

Originally Posted by Livernois Motorsports

remember, there is more to setting up the pushrods than simply tightening them to specification. You have to make certain preload is proper as well. We also do our best to send the length pushrod that it should take, but just like with PTV, pushrod length always needs to be verified.

Then why when we were putting my package together did they even tell me what pushrod to order in the first place. Nothing was ever mentioned about measurement. Instead of telling me what size pushrod to order, why didn't the person I spoke with tell me to take a measurement first? I was told by 3 separate employees there that the 7.425" will work with my combination and in fact that is the size I was told is used in ALL of engines with my combination?

[BOSS_HOSS]

I'm not gonna turn this into a Livernois bash. They are one of, if not the most professional performance shops I've ever dealt with. They're builds and reputation speak for themselves.

Understand its your first build. I just went though my own (LS). Homework alone prior to touching a wrench was a year at least...and one of the first things you learn is that no matter what anyone says...pushrod length and PTV is always checked. Another thing that's often skipped is the degreeing of the cam...I don't understand why anyone would skip this...it doesn't take long.

In my opinion, LS1tech is far better tech resource than camaro5...especially for sh** that isn't just bolt-ons.

Your best bet is to get the comp pushrod length checker and measure. I think (but don't quote me as I used Johnson lifters) the stock lifter likes 0.080 preload.

[booneSS13]

Originally Posted by BOSS_HOSS

I'm not gonna turn this into a Livernois bash. They are one of, if not the most professional performance shops I've ever dealt with. They're builds and reputation speak for themselves.

Understand its your first build. I just went though my own (LS). Homework alone prior to touching a wrench was a year at least...and one of the first things you learn is that no matter what anyone says...pushrod length and PTV is always checked. Another thing that's often skipped is the degreeing of the cam...I don't understand why anyone would skip this...it doesn't take long.

In my opinion, LS1tech is far better tech resource than camaro5...especially for sh** that isn't just bolt-ons.

Your best bet is to get the comp pushrod length checker and measure. I think (but don't quote me as I used Johnson lifters) the stock lifter likes 0.080 preload.

Yeah you're right. The sad part is this was at a local shop getting installed and they couldn't figure it out and long story short they were doing more harm than good so I just pulled the car out and now I'm figuring it out for myself. I just pulled my valve covers off now and I'm about to call a local speed shop and see if they have a checker for sale

[Livernois Motorsports]

Originally Posted by booneSS13

Then why when we were putting my package together did they even tell me what pushrod to order in the first place. Nothing was ever mentioned about measurement. Instead of telling me what size pushrod to order, why didn't the person I spoke with tell me to take a measurement first? I was told by 3 separate employees there that the 7.425" will work with my combination and in fact that is the size I was told is used in ALL of engines with my combination?

the 7.425 is indeed what is used in the vast majority of builds. But tolerance on the valve, the head, the gasket, the lifter, the cam, the rocker, etc all can add up and change the length needed. Sometimes it's even necessary to run a different intake/exhaust pushrod length. Also not checking PTV is sketchy, it's a great way to make certain the cam is installed properly in the first place. We know how much clearance the 2r-maxx should have, but if it's off a tooth, all of a sudden you have almost zero clearance. Enough that it will pass the "roll over" test, but not enough to handle any type of growth from components.

Even with that said, if someone here happened to say "it should be fine with this" The reason people pay a shop to do work is to know these things about the job.

I know in our shop no one could pay us enough to skip checking PTV or pushrod length, because we know everything is made with tolerance ranges.

Originally Posted by BOSS_HOSS

I'm not gonna turn this into a Livernois bash. They are one of, if not the most professional performance shops I've ever dealt with. They're builds and reputation speak for themselves.

Understand its your first build. I just went though my own (LS). Homework alone prior to touching a wrench was a year at least...and one of the first things you learn is that no matter what anyone says...pushrod length and PTV is always checked. Another thing that's often skipped is the degreeing of the cam...I don't understand why anyone would skip this...it doesn't take long.

In my opinion, LS1tech is far better tech resource than camaro5...especially for sh** that isn't just bolt-ons.

Your best bet is to get the comp pushrod length checker and measure. I think (but don't quote me as I used Johnson lifters) the stock lifter likes 0.080 preload.

I appreciate the kind words! Another good method to use is just checking preload with a stock pushrod. If there's too much preload, you can usually got .025 shorter for ever 1/4 turn of pre-load. If there's not enough, then do the same but go longer. Of course if it's a full turn or more out you might not be able to follow this general rule of thumb, but it serves us quite well.

[mikeSS]

Originally Posted by booneSS13

Yeah you're right. The sad part is this was at a local shop getting installed and they couldn't figure it out and long story short they were doing more harm than good so I just pulled the car out and now I'm figuring it out for myself. I just pulled my valve covers off now and I'm about to call a local speed shop and see if they have a checker for sale

The best thing when doing a cam is using parts and tune from the shop. i learned this the hard way.

why not go with a cam your local shop as used before?

[Unreal]

ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS measure push rods.

That being said, I doubt this is pushrods unless they are WAY off. Sounds more like a lifter or broken spring, or something not installed correctly.

[GONIF]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

It is best to wash the new PRs and then blow out the cleaner.

I have been doing it this way for 47 years and never had a problem. My method is take the New push rods out of the box , hit them with 120 to 150 psi from the air hose through the center and done . It never occurred to me to clean new push rods. On used push rods I soak them in a solvent tank then blow them out.

[1sick_eg]

All depends on the base circle of the cam and how much was milled. If the shop isn't checking preload and measuring ptv, then I'd go elsewhere anyway. Most common pr length with stock heads is 7.4. Milled heads would likely bring it around 7.375 depending on how much was milled and preload.

I would definitely check the lifters to make sure one isn't collapsed. Seems like the most likely culprit.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by GONIF

I have been doing it this way for 47 years and never had a problem. My method is take the New push rods out of the box , hit them with 120 to 150 psi from the air hose through the center and done . It never occurred to me to clean new push rods. On used push rods I soak them in a solvent tank then blow them out.

My engine builder is Joey Arrington. He builds NASCAR Cup and truck motors along with other high level circuits at his shop in Concord. The attention to detail in his shop is off the chart. He set me straight when my lead tech was doing what you, I and most everyone else does in my shop. We now run all engine parts through a cleaning process.

The parts that go in Joey's engines are probably cleaner than the dishes I eat off. ;-)